Stop blaming McNabb...my reply to Spadaro's article about lack of scoring in the last 2 minutes of regulation
by Eagles need to run on Oct 24, 2009 1:26 PM EDT
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Per Spadaro's recent article:
"The last time the Eagles won by scoring in the final two minutes of regulation was a 23-20 win over Oakland in 2005. "
Here are my thoughts:
1) We stink so much in the last 2 minutes of big games. Play calling, game planning and mismanagement of timeouts in 2 minute to go situations are the bigger reason this is the case.
2) Hope you all haven't forgotten so quickly that we had no two minute offense in the superbowl game against the Pats? That was not a result of McNabb being unclutch.
3) During the final two minutes when teams are trying to hold on to the lead, they play prevent/soft shell defense to limit down the field throws. Unfortunately our offensive play callers continue to dial up vertical routes, as we have not learned to take the underneath throws the defense gives us when we get them. These vertical routes of course don't open up often against a 2 minute defense at the end of the game trying to prevent big plays, therefore...ballgame!
4) Have you forgotten so quickly how often after a loss Andy Reid says "they were playing a soft shell"? This means they were trying to prevent big plays, hence our offense could not move the ball.
5) On potential game winning drives, the coaching and playcalling is just as important as the QB....if he isn't put in a position to succeed then he probably will not.
6) I hope you all realize that the offensive playcalling is much different with Garcia or Kolb under center than it is with McNabb under center. When anyone but McNabb is under center, the pass-run ration is more balanced, and in fact the types of WR routes run on the called passes involve more slants, drags and curls. The emphasis is more on longer drives. With McNabb, Reid keeps trying to hit big plays with every throw. Go back and watch these games if you doubt me.
7) I'm not sure what the reason for this playcalling difference is. I have a few theories. Reid either has too much confidence in Donovan's arm strength or is trying to hide McNabb's inaccuracy on shorter routes. Or he's just being an idiot.
8) Not saying McNabb is blameless...just saying I would like to see an actual two minute offense in a big game, where Big Red makes smart decisions with the clock and timeouts, and plays are called that actually have a chance of being successful in that situation. If McNabb doesn't come through in that scenario, then you can undoubtedly put the blame on him.
9) And don't tell me "if it were this simple, Andy Reid would have figured it out" because you know that's not true. Clearly he has a history of making the same mistakes over and over again despite everyone and their mama knowing what needs to be done to correct the mistakes.
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Most 2 Min offenses are run by the QB....
just saying
by Smallbugger on Oct 24, 2009 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree that obviously the coaching and game management of said coaches has a big impact on the success of late drives. But the point is that McNabb has had opportunities – with the amount of tight games that we have played in since ‘04 there HAS to have been situations where his abilities should have been able to overcome any coaching problems. We have had so many games that were decided by 7 or less during the last 4 seasons. If Peyton Manning were put into this system with Reid’s game management and coaching during a two minute drill, I bet you his ability would be able to overcome these same shortcomings AT LEAST 50% of the time. This is a bad combination of a QB that can’t win it when its on the line and poor coaching/management as you pointed out. In my eyes the blame falls on both factors, but the QB has to get more of it. Its not 50-50.
Okay so maybe it's time to move on. Hopefully it'll be moving on to winning a Championship!
by LeonSA on Oct 24, 2009 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope you all realize that the offensive playcalling is much different with Garcia or Kolb under center than it is with McNabb under center.
Finally!!! Its pretty obvious but people over look it. When McNabb is under center, everything is down field. I don’t understand what goes thru Andy’s mind. I understand that Jackson and Maclin are god awfully fast, but a slant and a quick pass here and there doesn’t hurt. Eventually, teams are going to start just backing up everyone and Reid is going to have to go short. DeSean caught a slant from Kolb and took if for a 64 yard TD. I have yet to see Andy call a slant for DeSean when McNabb is in. Its ridiculous.
by macjack09 on Oct 24, 2009 6:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been arguing #6 since Garcia's 2nd game as a starter
All of a sudden an anemic offense catches fire. The offensive calls for Garcia were short passes, screens, and healthy mix of the run game. In essence, Andy doesn’t trust Garcia or Kolb like he does McNabb, and he wants the ball out of their hands and into the hands of playmakers.
We are LOADED with playmakers!!!! If Andy could call the same game with McNabb in there, and get the ball into the hands of Jackson, Westy, Maclin, Avant, Weaver, McCoy…we would move the ball. If we move the ball, we won’t find ourselves in 3rd and 10 positions which we have yet to convert this year.
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Oct 24, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The whole “Reid calls a different game with Garcia/Kolb” thing…It probably has to do with the fact that Garcia and Kolb are weaker arms but highly accurate QBs while McNabb is a big arm but inaccurate QB…Seriously, McNabb throw a five yard pass five times and the ball is at the receiver’s foot 3-4 of the time.
RIP Jim Johnson, best ever.
by Imp on Oct 24, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Respectfully...
I’m a fan of McNabb, but the Offense is tantalizingly too “Greatest Show On Turf” with McNabb at the helm. Were Andy and Marty to call plays like a true WCO would, the Eagles would be 4-1, but…
http://www.igglesblog.com/iggles_blog/2009/10/raiders-video-rewind.html
and
http://eaglesblitz.blogspot.com/2009/10/offense-big-picture.html
These dudes know what they’re talking about. Shiny new toys and all..,
Not Mac’s fault, but perhaps the “system” would be better served by Kolb.
by cavortingEagle on Oct 24, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so is this an official
“start kolb now!!!” post or what???
Im sorry but Kolb may be the better QB next year. McNabb’s inconsistantness is really pissing me off. I love McNabb, he is a damn good player but he did nothing to give us a chance to win against Oakland and that bothers the hell out of me…
I keep saying over and over that It should not take a game like the 08 cincy game or the 09 oakland game to light a fire under Dmac’s ass… The sad part is that not even those games have lighten fire’s under his ass, the only thing that works is Playing Kolb ahead of him apparently… My point is that it should not take Playing Kolb ahead of McNabb to light a fire under McNabbs ass. He’s the Franchise QB, that should be fuel enough…
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Oct 24, 2009 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I respectfully completely disagree
with the “Start Kob now” idea.
A) McNabb’s inconsistent passes and game play is nothing new. In fact, it has been going on for over 10+ years now. Yet he is still the most winning QB in franchise history and continues to win the majority of the games he plays. Does his play sometimes leave a lot to be desired? At times, yes. But you could argue that about every player. DJax dropped a game-winning TD pass last year against the Redskins that could’ve clinched a playoff birth. Despite that, his presence in the line-up still gives the team the best chance to win. At times, Jason Peters has looked like a turnstyle early on, yet he still gives the team the best chance of winning when in the lineup.
B) The motivation for this kind of talk always follows a bad week of team play. The line was a sieve. The blocking was abominable. The Eagles went into the Oakland game having allowed the second fewest sacks in the league all year. They doubled their season total on Sunday alone, getting sacked 6 times. Some of those can be allotted to DMac, but most of them need to be allotted to the offensive line that didn’t enable the QB time to set his feet, step up in the pocket, or have time to make reads. It was obvious that Mcnabb’s timing was thrown off largely by his sense of urgency to make something happen because his options were to throw quickly, get sacked, or run for his life.
C) I argued this point last year after the Cincy game and it applies now: play calling. If your QB is struggling to make accurate throws, as a coach it is your job to manage the game to your players strengths or replace them with someone who can do a better job. If your QB is struggling to complete 50% of his passes, he shouldn’t be forced to throw 46x’s. If your QB can’t do a five step drop without pressure, then an adjustment needs to be made. If you run the ball 20% of the time, maybe play action is not the best decoy for down field passes as nobody will be fooled. McNabb may have had some terrible passes, but as a coach you should be modifying the calls to three step drops and quick slants to combat the D line position.
Quite frankly, a “Kolb now” statement is quite premature. Does anybody really think Kolb could’ve done any better last week with those plays and that Oline? I like Kolb, but my own opinion was that loss had more to do with poor coaching, combined with poor player execution, not just poor player execution. While McNabb looked AWFUL last week, I certainly didn’t see anybody else stepping their games to become difference makers. Across the board it was a lackluster effort on S/T’s, Offense, and Defense that lost the game.
Smack it up, flip it, rub it down... OH NOOOooo!
by J800 on Oct 25, 2009 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wooo
no you misunderstood… I mean that we should start “punishing” McNabb when he’s not even trying(im sorry but that oakland shit was him not trying) and play Kolb… The only time McNabb’s had a fire under his ass was when they benched him in favor of Kolb during the baltimore game.
As for your reason’s this is my point of view…
A) I honestly feel Kolb give’s us as good of a chance at winning as McNabb does.. During the Saints and Chief’s games he looked pretty good minus a few of the INT’s. He tried his best to give us a chance to win. And Im sorry, im one of the ones that feel that if you dont give a good effort then you need to be benched… McNabb did not give his best effort period, some of the OL didnt but when your the Franchise QB its your fault when there is a game like the oakland one. And as the franchise QB of 10+years McNabbs play should be alot steadier.
B) Im sorry but the OL business cannot account for McNabb’s terrible play early in the play.. Only after Peter’s got hurt did the line go to shit, and if Im correct that was late in the game. And saying McNabb’s inability to hit his WR’s is because of the OL then what can you blame his inaccuracy on over the past 10 years? and as for the " It was obvious that Mcnabb’s timing was thrown off largely by his sense of urgency to make something happen because his options were to throw quickly, get sacked, or run for his life." I didnt see any sense of urgency at all from McNabb, and he didnt run when he should have.
C) Um, if your QB is struggling to make 50% of his throw’s then maybe the fault runs on the QB some too. and as for “as a coach it is your job to manage the game to your players strengths or replace them with someone who can do a better job” I think Kolb could’ve done a better job in that game after watching it… Also when Passing is our bread and butter why not pass 46times? its worked all year long, Kolb threw 100times in 2 games and did a damn good job. As of right now I dont think the coaches trust McCoy and Westy in the running game. Also McNabb is terrible in the 3 step drop game, he always waits for stuff to develope hints the 5 step drop, however in that case Kolb did phenominal in the 3 step drop stuff and McNabb hates throwing a “quick slant” he always looks deep and hardly checks down… Kolb wouldve loved to throw that quick slant…
Im not on the “start kolb now” bandwagon yet, but all the adjustments you called for expecially the whole 3 step drop thing pretty much lead to 1 thing… Changing the offense to suit Kolb’s capabilities… Think whatever you want but we got 2 damn good QB’s on this team both with different talents.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Oct 25, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t disagree with you that Kolb could do well. And I don’t disagree that McNabb played like shit. My point was that there are a myriad of reasons why the team lost the way they did last Sunday.
“McNabb did not give his best effort period, some of the OL didnt but when your the Franchise QB its your fault when there is a game like the oakland one.” – I don’t understand the idea that, as a franchise quarterback, a loss, regardless of the entire team’s play, falls on your shoulders. It’s an Eagles loss, not a McNabb loss. Again, he played like shit; that’s not disputable. But nobody else on the team seemed motivated to overcome the poor performance of the rest of the team. Westbrook had a great per-carry average. Was it the franchise QB’s fault more runs to your franchise running back weren’t called?
“Um, if your QB is struggling to make 50% of his throw’s then maybe the fault runs on the QB some too.” – We both are using this same stat for both our arguments, and they are both valid. In no way did I say McNabb was void of any criticism. My point is that he does not deserve to be the sole recipient of said criticism. I merely noted that the coach gets paid to make decisions, such as: A) pull the starter and insert the backup; B) adjust the game plan; and/or C) start running a bigger variety of plays. Yes, McNabb played poorly. But he didn’t call the plays and he didn’t ask to be taken out, nor did he execute when he did get the chance.
“Only after Peter’s got hurt did the line go to shit, and if Im correct that was late in the game.” – Peter’s went down early/mid second quarter. They played like ass before he went down and played worse after Peter’s left the game. If McNabb sucks at the 3-step drop and there isn’t enough time for a 5-step drop, whose decision is it to call the correct plays and insert the correct personnel? It isn’t McNabb’s decision. The point I was trying to make was that McNabb played like ass, but there was more to it than just bad passes. It was bad passes coupled with zero-time in the pocket, with a peppering of inappropriate play calling.
“Also when Passing is our bread and butter why not pass 46times?” – Because it was obvious that in the game against the Raiders, the Eagles had no such thing as any “bread and butter” plays. None. The running game was more productive than the passing game per play. Why would you pass 46x’s if the passing plays worked less than 50% of the time? And if you are playing the league’s worst run defense, why not run more? Especially when Westy averaged 8.3 yds per carry and is arguably the team’s best player.
The entire point of my rambling diatribe (sorry for how long it is… I tend to write a lot) was to say that there were many more factors that resulted in the loss other than just a bad game by McNabb. McNabb is not faultless. Hindsight is 20/20, but this is a recurring theme in the Reid/McNabb-era. Just by the fact that the game plan is much more manageable when other QB’s are in the game tells me that Andy Reid out-coaches McNabb’s abilities.
I think in a way we are on the same page but see things a little differently. With all this nonsense said, I’d much rather have two QB’s like Kolb and McNabb on the team than not. My issue has more to do with how the games and players are coached.
Smack it up, flip it, rub it down... OH NOOOooo!
by J800 on Oct 26, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More Kolb nonsense?
Please understand this…he is not anywhere close to Donovan as a QB. And he never will be. Kolb will never be the better QB.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Oct 25, 2009 8:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that doesn't really matter
I’m not really advocating starting Kolb, but if Kolb can manage a game and we can execute long drives with him in, we’ll be in a good position to win. Trent Dilfer won a superbowl. Dan Marino did not. Who is the better QB?
by eagleyosh on Oct 25, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micheal Vick.
thats Cobb on Kolb crime if you ask me... as said by yophillybro
by wild_eagle on Oct 25, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mcnabb has been on the eagles too long and is time for a change
Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year
by angryandy on Oct 25, 2009 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Love McNabb
but there’s no doubting the lack of composure in clutch situations. But it seems to me that people decide to ignore his abilities and focus on that one flaw (a flaw that is no doubt influenced by Reid as well).
People forget the days of Doug Pederson, Ty Detmer, and Bobby Hoying. Be thankful for what you have because he’s one of the best out there right now. Look how many times this guy’s won the division and gone to the NFC championship game while 28 other QBs sat home.
by Q27 on Oct 25, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just sayin
HE didnt in the division …our team did
You dont like my IGGLES???!!!! well you can just suck my VICK!
by northern eagle on Oct 25, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if winning cant be placed on one's shoulders
then neither can losing.
by Q27 on Oct 25, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
If it takes a Team Effort to Win
Then anything less could lead to a loss….
Ergo,
It takes a TEAM to WIN,
but just ONE jackass to LOSE IT.
by madderwulf on Oct 26, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its the team’s responsibility to pick up for the “jackass” who is a part of the team. they all recieve the L.
by Q27 on Oct 26, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Much appreciation for all your thoughtful comments on this
I really enjoy the discussions, and that’s one of the reasons I post on this site.
I didn’t mean to turn this into a “Start Kolb now” blog. There are however, you a couple of things you all should check out:
http://www.igglesblog.com/iggles_blog/2009/10/raiders-video-rewind.html
This blog does a pretty nice job of breaking down our offensive possessions against the raiders, especially in the second half, and pointing out that Donovan appears to have had quite a few misreads and a bothersome amount of inaccurate throws which contributed immensely to the end result. In spite of that, the coaches kept doing the same things hoping for different results.
http://eaglesblitz.blogspot.com/2009/10/offense-big-picture.html
This is an article on the eagles blitz blogspot summarizing the offensive big picture. After I read it, a couple of statements particularly stood out:
I guess the simple way to sum this up is that Andy and Marty bring out the worst in McNabb and that he brings out the worst in them.
Would things be different with Kevin Kolb at QB? Who knows. We have way too small a sample to make an accurate judgment.
In summary, what we have is a head coach and offensive coordinator (AR and MM), implementing a pass happy offense that would work best with a QB that is consistently accurate and has good field awareness. Donovan does not appear to have either of these qualities. However, instead of crafting out a game plan/offense to maximize Donovan’s individual abilities, AR and MM refuse to do this and continue to try to force a square peg into a round hole.
I doubt that this strategy will be good enough to win a SB. But who knows….maybe we’ll get lucky.
by Eagles need to run on Oct 25, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So Tru........
However…..With that being said Please lets not forget what is most important. WINS..Dmac Is a Great QB period. He WINS…..Its may not always pretty and probably wont but in the final 2min however he is a winner. He wins in Playoffs and regular season @ a rate of 66%…….there are only 2 other qbs who have a better winning%……..so he overcomes all of his said deficincies in the 2min drill….There are 58 other mins in a game to make an impact.Give me Mcnabb during those and ill take my chances with him any day
by CJ's Eagles on Oct 25, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love how everytime we lose or something happens everyone is against McNabb and the next time we win he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He had a bad game… sobeit. Lets all just move on to tonights game and see what happens. No point in asking for his head after one game. I still have a lot of hope for this season with McNabb as our QB
In life, as in a football game, the principle to follow is: Hit the line hard.
-Theodore Roosevelt
by Eaglesgrl5 on Oct 26, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
“I love how everytime we lose or something happens everyone is against McNabb and the next time we win he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. He had a bad game.” – Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Smack it up, flip it, rub it down... OH NOOOooo!
by J800 on Oct 26, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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