Michael Lombardi likes my work - More on the atrocious 2:02 timeout...
I don't mean to be a "told you so" guy (OK, maybe a little), but I feel we'll all be smarter football fans if we have this basic strategy drilled into our heads a little more. In all seriousness, it really was an incredibly stupid coaching decision that any Pop Warner coach worth their salt would have gotten right.
In case you missed my earlier post on the ridiculous 2:02 timeout...
And here's the National Football Post article...
The Sunday funnies...
Eagles coach Andy Reid is a great coach, but he might want to think about outsourcing his game-management decisions. Sunday, calling his last timeout with 2:02 to go in the game (yes, before the two-minute warning) as the Raiders faced a 3rd-and-8, allowed Oakland to call a pass. Had Reid saved his timeout and those two whole seconds, the Raiders would have been forced to run the ball, allowing the defense to make a play. This is not the first time Andy has left me wondering about his game-management decisions, but this one might rank No. 1 of all time.
Thanks Mr. Lombardi. Love how he calls it the No. 1 time management blunder of Reid's career - No small feat. Link
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For the record
Even though I didn’t post on the other site…I COMPLETELY agreed with your analysis!
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Bye, Dawk ... what line of work are you in?
Whatever it is, it’s the wrong one. I love how this isn’t the first time you’ve accused the pros (albeit jokingly) of plagiarizing you. :)
Love how he calls it the No. 1 time management blunder of Reid’s career
I’m gonna have to disagree. We can do a top 10 list on that if we’re really bored.
I honestly wonder why teams don’t hire “time management coaches.” They entrust every little detail of special teams to a single guy, sometimes safeties and tight ends and d-ends have their own coaches.
Why can’t the offensive quality control guy focus on timeouts and challenges on game day? Especially on a team where the HC is more or less the play-caller.
Bye, Dawk, I suggested on the other thread you offer your time management services to the Eagles in exchange for being able to ride the team flight and collect the meal money.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Haha, thanks... Wall Street stuff...
I love how this isn’t the first time you’ve accused the pros (albeit jokingly) of plagiarizing you. :)
The last one was Peter King. I wrote something about the draft day trades we made and how we picked up a ton of picks without really giving up much, and then Peter King wrote basically the same thing a few days later.
Mine – http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009/4/26/854652/our-3rd-rounder-got-us-a-3-a-5-a-7
Peter King’s – http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/03/eagles/index.html (You have to skip past the Favre stuff)
I really wouldn’t be surprised if guys like Peter King and Michael Lombardi lifted ideas from sites like this regularly. You steal from a nobody and change your wording a little, and maybe add a little of your own commentary, and it’s not like anyone will notice. It’s not easy thinking of things to write everyday. Disclaimer – I’m definitely not saying they stole from me at all, but it’s really not so far-fetched.
I honestly wonder why teams don’t hire "time management coaches." They entrust every little detail of special teams to a single guy, sometimes safeties and tight ends and d-ends have their own coaches.
That’s a really good point. In 1969, George Allen hired Dick Vermeil as a “special teams” coach for the Rams. Vermeil was the first ever special teams coach. It was sort of mocked back then, but it turns out there that it was an outstanding idea. Why not have a time-management coach? Bill Simmons of espn.com has a podcast, and on numerous occasions he has said that NFL teams should just hire a pimply-faced 14 year old that does nothing but play Madden all day, because there won’t be anyone out there that has seen more time-management scenarios than him – And just plop the kid next to the coach on the sidelines and to tell him when he’s making an obvious mistake. Obviously, he’s half kidding, but in reality, than plan would have worked last Sunday
I can see how coaches F this stuff up though
You gotta figure these guys got 10 things on their mind. Shoot, I only had 2 things on my mind (was working Sunday and trying to watch the 4th quarter) and I actually thought it was clever to sneak that last timeout in before the 2-minute warning … before we talked it out and I realized now Oakland has no incentive to run the ball on 3rd-and-10.
Now it’s fair to expect a professional football coach to be smarter than me, but at the same time, in the speed of things, I can see why dudes mess this stuff up. Zorn is awful at it too … we might see a half on Monday where nobody has any timeouts left by the 8-minute mark.
Some coach out there should swallow his pride and just have one guy manage timeouts. Period. Basketball coaches delegate this to their assistants, don’t they?
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Yeah,
I’m not bad at managing the clock in Madden…but let’s be honest about what Reid has on his mind on gameday…
with that said…something’s gotta give
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
D3Keith, I would have to disagree with you.
Coaches shouldn’t F that type of stuff up because …its their job!
The better coaches in the league actually try as much as possible to come up with various hypothetical scenarios as part of their preparation for games. Hence they are prepared and don’t have to do as much thinking if the situation does occur.
Granted, the specific situation in question may be difficult to come up with hypothetically, but anyone that has watched Andy Reid over the years in game and clock management situations will agree with me that he very likely does not prepare for these potential situations prior to the game.
If he even worked at it just a little bit he wouldn’t continue to be just as bad with clock/game management now as he was 5 years ago. Hell, if he just learned from his past mistakes he would have made some progress by now.
by Eagles need to run on Oct 20, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions
Valid.
I thought I mentioned somewhere that it’s fair to expect them to know it because it’s their job. But they also have lots of other jobs swirling through their minds at the time, it might be wise to give the duty to someone who has little else on his plate at that point in the game.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
I actually thought it was clever to sneak that last timeout in before the 2-minute warning
I jumped out of my couch, and spilled beer all over myself as soon as he called that timeout at 2:02.
This is the quote from my wife about Reid who doesn’t know shit about the Eagles or football.
“What is wrong with that fatty? He didn’t eat his cheez-its today or something?”
That put a smile on my face.
Bye Dawk, it is baffling me how many guys at BGN including “vets” are not getting how bad Andy Reid was yesterday. They are not understanding how the timeout and not running the ball basically cost us the game. People just love to get on Mcnabb’s back but not Reid’s. What do you think? Who gets more blame for the game?
Reid or Mcnabb?
Andy Reid needs to go. 36-32-1 (2005-present) Oakland game is unacceptable.
I know I'm not Bye, Dawk, but I'll answer anyway
REID!!!!!
McNabb was unimpressive implementing a terrible game plan that he did not come up with. McNabb was unimpressive making decisions in split seconds because the O Line couldn’t stop anyone.
This is NOT on McNabb
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
Yeah, I mean obviously my first instinct was wrong
I think I was thinking ‘ooh, we stop them, use our last timeout and then the clock stops again at 2 minutes.’
Besides the other reasons mentioned, it’s always good to keep one timeout in the bag that you can use to stop the clock whenever you want to.
I think when you want the ball back, the first instinct is to just get a stop, call timeout ASAP … somebody definitely should have realized before that play how close they were to the 2-minute warning and reminded everyone not to.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
Not the only clock management gaffe
Did you see end of the first half? Any reason you would bring in Vick from the sidelines when you are running the hurry up? The entire change made it so they did not get lined up until there were two seconds left on the play clock. McNabb screwed up as well but even if he does not try to call the phantom time out, they don’t snap the ball in time.
phantom timeout
the thing that struck me about the timeout call by Don was that Westbrook immediately looked frustrated like he tries to stop Don. the halfback knew we had no timeouts, but the quarterback didn’t.
nonetheless, you are all right. this loss is all on Andy.
by Bisch on Oct 20, 2009 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Clock Management... In-half Adjustments
Are the Eagles weakest coaching areas, and more with the offense than the D. We all have these weak areas. I have a problem managing pretty Irish girls in Eagles jersies, for example. They make me think with the wrong part of my body and do stupid things with my wallet.
Half-time adjustments, team management seem to be the eagles strongest coaching areas.
What can a team do to improve in game management? Adjust play calling balance, tweak offensive plans?
I honestly think
if Reid is going to be involved with the offense and big-picture items such as the team’s mood and whether or not to punt, kick the field goal or go for it on 4th, he very well could hand the clock managment duties off for the good of the team.
All coaches have certain gameday responsibilities and I have no idea how the Eagles break theirs down, but it seems like Reid could definitely hand off the clock stuff or have a time expert by his side the last two minutes of the half. While Reid is thinking about personnel and down and distance, this coach can purely manage timeouts (and maybe challenges).
Just a thought.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
it was a bad call, but I don’t think the outcome was affected all that much. In the end clock management didn’t lose this game.
Totally agree
there were many single plays that could have gone different that would have made even a bigger difference that the time out. The over all play of the whole team was truly the problem.
Let's get it.
by homestar2281 on Oct 20, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Right... And I'm not saying that botched timeout cost us the game... Our horrible play all game did.
But the timeout certainly didn’t help, and probably cost us the chance for one last drive. All I’m saying is that Reid screwed up… badly… and the criticism is warranted.
What Confuses Me
First off this is a great point that really breaks down a call that should be basic for someone who makes their career coaching football. A lot of the times time management errors can be validated by some type of theory, but this one is pretty clear cut in that it takes the risk out of passing for the raiders in a 3rd in long situation.
My gripe is that I am starting to believe that there is an accountability problem with Andy Reid. I think every fan of football will agree that he is terrible at clock management, so why hasn’t it been worked on. Any child that plays madden could manage the clock better.
I’m not saying Reid is a bad coach because I think we should lock him up long term, but why hasn’t Lurie addressed this situation. In what profession are employees weaknesses not addressed and improved, its not like clock management is any harder to understand then say the West Coast Offense.
I still say the Raiders call a pass regardless. 1-4 teams with nothing to lose take that chance.
I am the people's troll :3™
OK, so maybe they do pass anyway...
There’s STILL a strategical advantage waiting for the 2 minute warning anyway. Here’s the difference…
- If you call a timeout at 2:02 and they throw an incomplete pass, the clock stops anyway because any play will always take at least 2 seconds… but you’ve already burned your last timeout.
- If you wait the 2 seconds for the 2 minute warning, and then they pass anyway and it’s incomplete, the clock stops and you get to keep your last timeout.
Whatever scenario you want to dial up for why they should have called a timeout, I’ll have an irrefutable answer.
Haha!
Bye, Dawk’s work finally gets featured on the homepage of BGN.
Andy Reid needs to go. 36-32-1 (2005-present) Oakland game is unacceptable.
still don't agree.
I don’t see how calling before 2 minutes caused them to call a pass play. I’m sure Tom Cable knew Andy would only use his last time out first play after the warning anyway. They are 2 timeouts basically, doesn’t matter how they are used, they still serve the same goal. The coaches mind doesn’t change just because its a 2 min warning vs a time out. Andy would have called time out first thing after the next play after the warning anyway. Still don’t see how it influenced the Raiders play calling. Maybe someone can spelled that out better for me, because I’m lost on that line of thinking
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
Your ENTIRE argument is predicated on the assumption that the Raiders playbook changes depending on the timing of the Eagles time outs, AND I DON’T BUY IT.
I’m not stupid. I can read and comprehend the English language perfectly well. I DISAGREE with you, and you stand there 100% sure of your correctness, when this is a matter of opinion. You cannot state what you are stating as fact, as you have been doing since the Eagles lost the game.
I am the people's troll :3™
I Agree with the arguement given by Dawk now, but don't necessarily think it was a factor.
I think that coach Cable would have called a pass play regardless to when Andy used his timeout. Because coach didn’t want to punt the ball back to the Eagles. And rushing the ball almost guarantees the Eagles get the ball back w/ 2 minutes. But the timeout did make the decision to pass easier.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
All it did was nearly guarantee the play would be a pass. But Bye Dawk can’t possibly claim he knows any better than anyone else what play Cable would call had the time out not been called when it was. I think they pass regardless. He sees it differently. That’s fine.
I don’t need to be told “I just don’t get it” in a condescending as all hell manner when the truth is “I just don’t agree with you.”
I am the people's troll :3™
yeah, I hear you.
I just read from Whodie, and we agree that who knows what the Cable call would have been. I think Cable needed to be aggressive at that spot anyway. And a pass play would have won the game, where as the run guarantees another Eagle drive (even though they keep 1 time out). I call short pass to a RB on an out (accross) in front of Trotter. Which is what we got. I think that was the game plan regardless.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 22, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't mean to sound condescending...
And sorry… I guess it did come across that way.
But the fact remains… This is not an opinion – Calling a timeout there was stupid, end of story.
We can arrange a conference call if you’d like. I can probably explain it better verbally.
by JimmyK on Oct 21, 2009 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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