Michael Lombardi likes my work - More on the atrocious 2:02 timeout...
I don't mean to be a "told you so" guy (OK, maybe a little), but I feel we'll all be smarter football fans if we have this basic strategy drilled into our heads a little more. In all seriousness, it really was an incredibly stupid coaching decision that any Pop Warner coach worth their salt would have gotten right.
In case you missed my earlier post on the ridiculous 2:02 timeout...
And here's the National Football Post article...
The Sunday funnies...
Eagles coach Andy Reid is a great coach, but he might want to think about outsourcing his game-management decisions. Sunday, calling his last timeout with 2:02 to go in the game (yes, before the two-minute warning) as the Raiders faced a 3rd-and-8, allowed Oakland to call a pass. Had Reid saved his timeout and those two whole seconds, the Raiders would have been forced to run the ball, allowing the defense to make a play. This is not the first time Andy has left me wondering about his game-management decisions, but this one might rank No. 1 of all time.
Thanks Mr. Lombardi. Love how he calls it the No. 1 time management blunder of Reid's career - No small feat. Link
0 recs |
71 comments
Comments
For the record
Even though I didn’t post on the other site…I COMPLETELY agreed with your analysis!
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Oct 20, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bye, Dawk ... what line of work are you in?
Whatever it is, it’s the wrong one. I love how this isn’t the first time you’ve accused the pros (albeit jokingly) of plagiarizing you. :)
Love how he calls it the No. 1 time management blunder of Reid’s career
I’m gonna have to disagree. We can do a top 10 list on that if we’re really bored.
I honestly wonder why teams don’t hire “time management coaches.” They entrust every little detail of special teams to a single guy, sometimes safeties and tight ends and d-ends have their own coaches.
Why can’t the offensive quality control guy focus on timeouts and challenges on game day? Especially on a team where the HC is more or less the play-caller.
Bye, Dawk, I suggested on the other thread you offer your time management services to the Eagles in exchange for being able to ride the team flight and collect the meal money.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Oct 20, 2009 12:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha, thanks... Wall Street stuff...
I love how this isn’t the first time you’ve accused the pros (albeit jokingly) of plagiarizing you. :)
The last one was Peter King. I wrote something about the draft day trades we made and how we picked up a ton of picks without really giving up much, and then Peter King wrote basically the same thing a few days later.
Mine – http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2009/4/26/854652/our-3rd-rounder-got-us-a-3-a-5-a-7
Peter King’s – http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/05/03/eagles/index.html (You have to skip past the Favre stuff)
I really wouldn’t be surprised if guys like Peter King and Michael Lombardi lifted ideas from sites like this regularly. You steal from a nobody and change your wording a little, and maybe add a little of your own commentary, and it’s not like anyone will notice. It’s not easy thinking of things to write everyday. Disclaimer – I’m definitely not saying they stole from me at all, but it’s really not so far-fetched.
I honestly wonder why teams don’t hire "time management coaches." They entrust every little detail of special teams to a single guy, sometimes safeties and tight ends and d-ends have their own coaches.
That’s a really good point. In 1969, George Allen hired Dick Vermeil as a “special teams” coach for the Rams. Vermeil was the first ever special teams coach. It was sort of mocked back then, but it turns out there that it was an outstanding idea. Why not have a time-management coach? Bill Simmons of espn.com has a podcast, and on numerous occasions he has said that NFL teams should just hire a pimply-faced 14 year old that does nothing but play Madden all day, because there won’t be anyone out there that has seen more time-management scenarios than him – And just plop the kid next to the coach on the sidelines and to tell him when he’s making an obvious mistake. Obviously, he’s half kidding, but in reality, than plan would have worked last Sunday
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see how coaches F this stuff up though
You gotta figure these guys got 10 things on their mind. Shoot, I only had 2 things on my mind (was working Sunday and trying to watch the 4th quarter) and I actually thought it was clever to sneak that last timeout in before the 2-minute warning … before we talked it out and I realized now Oakland has no incentive to run the ball on 3rd-and-10.
Now it’s fair to expect a professional football coach to be smarter than me, but at the same time, in the speed of things, I can see why dudes mess this stuff up. Zorn is awful at it too … we might see a half on Monday where nobody has any timeouts left by the 8-minute mark.
Some coach out there should swallow his pride and just have one guy manage timeouts. Period. Basketball coaches delegate this to their assistants, don’t they?
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Oct 20, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
I’m not bad at managing the clock in Madden…but let’s be honest about what Reid has on his mind on gameday…
with that said…something’s gotta give
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Oct 20, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
D3Keith, I would have to disagree with you.
Coaches shouldn’t F that type of stuff up because …its their job!
The better coaches in the league actually try as much as possible to come up with various hypothetical scenarios as part of their preparation for games. Hence they are prepared and don’t have to do as much thinking if the situation does occur.
Granted, the specific situation in question may be difficult to come up with hypothetically, but anyone that has watched Andy Reid over the years in game and clock management situations will agree with me that he very likely does not prepare for these potential situations prior to the game.
If he even worked at it just a little bit he wouldn’t continue to be just as bad with clock/game management now as he was 5 years ago. Hell, if he just learned from his past mistakes he would have made some progress by now.
by Eagles need to run on Oct 20, 2009 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Valid.
I thought I mentioned somewhere that it’s fair to expect them to know it because it’s their job. But they also have lots of other jobs swirling through their minds at the time, it might be wise to give the duty to someone who has little else on his plate at that point in the game.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Oct 20, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually thought it was clever to sneak that last timeout in before the 2-minute warning
I jumped out of my couch, and spilled beer all over myself as soon as he called that timeout at 2:02.
This is the quote from my wife about Reid who doesn’t know shit about the Eagles or football.
“What is wrong with that fatty? He didn’t eat his cheez-its today or something?”
That put a smile on my face.
Bye Dawk, it is baffling me how many guys at BGN including “vets” are not getting how bad Andy Reid was yesterday. They are not understanding how the timeout and not running the ball basically cost us the game. People just love to get on Mcnabb’s back but not Reid’s. What do you think? Who gets more blame for the game?
Reid or Mcnabb?
Andy Reid needs to go. 36-32-1 (2005-present) Oakland game is unacceptable.
by Route36 on Oct 20, 2009 1:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm not Bye, Dawk, but I'll answer anyway
REID!!!!!
McNabb was unimpressive implementing a terrible game plan that he did not come up with. McNabb was unimpressive making decisions in split seconds because the O Line couldn’t stop anyone.
This is NOT on McNabb
"What did it feel like? That collision, I didn't feel nothing, because he was pretty much defenseless. It was like running through a cardboard box. Seriously. Cardboard box."- Sheldon Brown on his pounding of Reggie Bush in the '06 Playoffs
by jalarsen1 on Oct 20, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reid. McNabb was bad, but the entire offense was completely unprepared, so that’s on Reid.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They didn't seem unprepared
Out -of-sync would be more like it.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Oct 20, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I mean obviously my first instinct was wrong
I think I was thinking ‘ooh, we stop them, use our last timeout and then the clock stops again at 2 minutes.’
Besides the other reasons mentioned, it’s always good to keep one timeout in the bag that you can use to stop the clock whenever you want to.
I think when you want the ball back, the first instinct is to just get a stop, call timeout ASAP … somebody definitely should have realized before that play how close they were to the 2-minute warning and reminded everyone not to.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Oct 20, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the only clock management gaffe
Did you see end of the first half? Any reason you would bring in Vick from the sidelines when you are running the hurry up? The entire change made it so they did not get lined up until there were two seconds left on the play clock. McNabb screwed up as well but even if he does not try to call the phantom time out, they don’t snap the ball in time.
by Dawk on Oct 20, 2009 2:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
phantom timeout
the thing that struck me about the timeout call by Don was that Westbrook immediately looked frustrated like he tries to stop Don. the halfback knew we had no timeouts, but the quarterback didn’t.
nonetheless, you are all right. this loss is all on Andy.
by Bisch on Oct 20, 2009 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Clock Management... In-half Adjustments
Are the Eagles weakest coaching areas, and more with the offense than the D. We all have these weak areas. I have a problem managing pretty Irish girls in Eagles jersies, for example. They make me think with the wrong part of my body and do stupid things with my wallet.
Half-time adjustments, team management seem to be the eagles strongest coaching areas.
What can a team do to improve in game management? Adjust play calling balance, tweak offensive plans?
by IggleGreen on Oct 20, 2009 7:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I honestly think
if Reid is going to be involved with the offense and big-picture items such as the team’s mood and whether or not to punt, kick the field goal or go for it on 4th, he very well could hand the clock managment duties off for the good of the team.
All coaches have certain gameday responsibilities and I have no idea how the Eagles break theirs down, but it seems like Reid could definitely hand off the clock stuff or have a time expert by his side the last two minutes of the half. While Reid is thinking about personnel and down and distance, this coach can purely manage timeouts (and maybe challenges).
Just a thought.
Still waiting for the Eagles to Bring It Home For Jerome
by D3Keith on Oct 20, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No challenges in the last two minutes, and besides, they have guys in the booth looking at whether or not plays should be challenged.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 20, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a bad call, but I don’t think the outcome was affected all that much. In the end clock management didn’t lose this game.
by JasonB on Oct 20, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
there were many single plays that could have gone different that would have made even a bigger difference that the time out. The over all play of the whole team was truly the problem.
Let's get it.
by homestar2281 on Oct 20, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right... And I'm not saying that botched timeout cost us the game... Our horrible play all game did.
But the timeout certainly didn’t help, and probably cost us the chance for one last drive. All I’m saying is that Reid screwed up… badly… and the criticism is warranted.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Confuses Me
First off this is a great point that really breaks down a call that should be basic for someone who makes their career coaching football. A lot of the times time management errors can be validated by some type of theory, but this one is pretty clear cut in that it takes the risk out of passing for the raiders in a 3rd in long situation.
My gripe is that I am starting to believe that there is an accountability problem with Andy Reid. I think every fan of football will agree that he is terrible at clock management, so why hasn’t it been worked on. Any child that plays madden could manage the clock better.
I’m not saying Reid is a bad coach because I think we should lock him up long term, but why hasn’t Lurie addressed this situation. In what profession are employees weaknesses not addressed and improved, its not like clock management is any harder to understand then say the West Coast Offense.
by Tron79 on Oct 20, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still say the Raiders call a pass regardless. 1-4 teams with nothing to lose take that chance.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 20, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OK, so maybe they do pass anyway...
There’s STILL a strategical advantage waiting for the 2 minute warning anyway. Here’s the difference…
- If you call a timeout at 2:02 and they throw an incomplete pass, the clock stops anyway because any play will always take at least 2 seconds… but you’ve already burned your last timeout.
- If you wait the 2 seconds for the 2 minute warning, and then they pass anyway and it’s incomplete, the clock stops and you get to keep your last timeout.
Whatever scenario you want to dial up for why they should have called a timeout, I’ll have an irrefutable answer.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But I still don’t think it would’ve matter in the end. Even if they did get the ball back, they weren’t doing anything with it.
I think its the last think we should be complaining about.
by bdawk4ever on Oct 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s say Charlie Manuel puts a steal sign on for Eric Bruntlett last night, and the Dodgers throw him out to end the game… I could easily say “Jimmy Rollins probably wouldn’t have hit a double in the gap anyway.”
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andy Reid was counting on his team executing. Timeouts DO NOT MATTER if you’re not getting the ball back. Andy Reid called the time out operating under the assumption his defense was going to stop the Raiders and the Eagles would get the ball back. His calling the time out at 2:02 and stopping the clock was the right call for the only scenario that mattered: The one where the Eagles make the stop and get the ball back. He was playing the odds. The chances that the Raiders threw an incomplete pass were a lot smaller than any other scenario, and that’s the ONLY scenario (besides running out of bounds, which was not going to happen) where the Eagles would’ve been better off if Andy Reid saved the time out.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 20, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"When in Rome!"
(like Anchorman)
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I understand what you’re saying. You say the Eagles would be better off, under EVERY scenario, if they had waited to call the time out, when the truth is the Eagles would be better off IF AND ONLY IF the Raiders throw an incomplete pass.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 20, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I love ya brother, but I can’t explain it anymore. You’re not getting it.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
You haven’t refuted anything I’ve said in the last two posts, you just claim I don’t understand what you’re saying.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 20, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh... Because you don't understand and I'm kind of tired of this conversation...
Let me go back to the major reason you don’t call a timeout there… Please don’t skim this – Read it, because I think that’s what might be going on here and I don’t want to explain it anymore.
If you call the timeout at 2:02, no matter what play the Raiders call (pass, run, whatever), the clock is going to stop at the 2 minute warning. It seems like a good thing for the defense, but it’s really not, because now what you’ve done is you’ve just made the offense infinitely less predictable. They can now run ANY PLAY THEY WANT knowing that the clock will stop regardless. (And by the way, need I remind you that this is exactly what happened – They passed, got the first down, and iced the game).
If you don’t call the timeout, the only way the Raiders can absolutely ensure that the defense burns its final timeout is to call a run play that stays in bounds. You’ve just made their offense extremely predictable, and you’re setting yourself up for an easy stop on a 3rd and 10 running play.
NOW… What you’re saying is that the Raiders are a garbage 1-4 team, so they probably would have been aggressive and thrown anyway. I totally disagree, but OK, fine… Let’s look at the strategy there… Let’s say they pass anyway. If they throw an incomplete pass, beautiful – Now you get the ball back and STILL have your last timeout. If they run a pass play, complete it, and get tackled in bounds (or if you sack them, or whatever), you still have your timeout to use and you’re no worse off than if you had called it at 2:02 (well, except that you have 2 fewer seconds).
Is saving 2 measly seconds really worth losing all of the above strategical benefits?
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you’re saying is that the Raiders are a garbage 1-4 team, so they probably would have been aggressive and thrown anyway. I totally disagree
They would not throw it anyway because even if they are a garbage team, they are desperate to win. They saw how bad we were on offense. Why would they have passed when they don’t have a reason to? Wait till the 2 minute warning, run the ball, force Andy to use the timeout, punt the ball with the best punter in the league which would pin the Eagles deep and let the defense do what they did all night. The last thing they would want is making a mistake to cost them the game.
You say the Eagles would be better off, under EVERY scenario, if they had waited to call the time out, when the truth is the Eagles would be better off IF AND ONLY IF the Raiders throw an incomplete pass.
Or…completed a pass but tackled short of the first down in bounds.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by Route36 on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha!
Bye, Dawk’s work finally gets featured on the homepage of BGN.
Andy Reid needs to go. 36-32-1 (2005-present) Oakland game is unacceptable.
by Route36 on Oct 20, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Haha, sweet!
…although I’ve been “promoted” a few other times.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 20, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? I thought this was a first. Other than Jason’s posts, the only other fan posts I see on the homepage is this Bob Q fellow’s.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by Route36 on Oct 21, 2009 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Q is an official writer for the blog now, I believe.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still don't agree.
I don’t see how calling before 2 minutes caused them to call a pass play. I’m sure Tom Cable knew Andy would only use his last time out first play after the warning anyway. They are 2 timeouts basically, doesn’t matter how they are used, they still serve the same goal. The coaches mind doesn’t change just because its a 2 min warning vs a time out. Andy would have called time out first thing after the next play after the warning anyway. Still don’t see how it influenced the Raiders play calling. Maybe someone can spelled that out better for me, because I’m lost on that line of thinking
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 21, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you guys just F’ing with me at this point, because if so, that’s pretty funny.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was fucking with you too …
They are 2 timeouts basically, doesn’t matter how they are used, they still serve the same goal
Dude this isn’t a true statement. The thing is calling a timeout at 2:02 saves 2 seconds … waiting those two second for the two minute warning saves a timeout and puts Cable into a more difficult position play calling wise.
If you know the clock is going to stop in 2 seconds at the two minute warning throwing the ball doesn’t matter an incomplete pass doesn’t hurt you. That is the point. If you wait for the two minute warning there is a good chance Cable runs it to force Andy to use his last timeout.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Oct 21, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have a winner!! Ding Ding Ding!
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by Route36 on Oct 21, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I finally got it. (I was just pulling everyones chain man, Chill out homies) :P
It didn’t make sense to me for while. But I guess you are right, (and Dawk as well).
If Oaklands 3rd down attempt is incomplete @ 2:02, we would be pressed against the 2 minute warning anyway. So we would be out of time outs, but still get the ball back.
Where as an implete pass after the warning would not have cost Andy a Timeout, and the Eagles get the ball back with a Time out. So coach Cable would go with the option that doesn’t involve giving the Eagles the ball back with a Timeout.
(Sometimes, certaine things take a while to develope in my head, this one just didn’t, but now it does).
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 21, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Cheers from the crowd)
Good job.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that I understand your agrument. I still beleive they would have passed the ball regardless. Just because it was a 3rd and long. And Either way, the Eagles would have gotten the ball back after a run stop anyway. So his best option would have been to throw the ball, even if it ran the risk of allowing the Eagles to get the ball back with a timeout, it would have given his team the best chance to win, in opposed to just giving the ball back to the Eagles.
But the timeout certainely made Cable’s decision easier, being there was no Time out consequence for a possible incomplete pass.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 21, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is the tough part … if you run the ball you force Andy to use his last timeout .. if you pass it you risk the incomplete pass stopping the clock and allowing the Eagles to keep there TO.
I don’t think many NFL coaches call a pass in that situation, Cable is desperate so it’s really tough to tell what he would have done.
The timeout blunder was bad but in reality we shouldn’t have been in a situation where we needed a last second drive to beat the Raiders in the first place.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Oct 21, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing, and how desperate the Raiders would have been,
If I were Cable, I would be aggresive for the win, and not just run the ball and guarantee another Eagles Drive. I would have had a RB go accross on Trotter on a short pass, just as he did. That gave the Raiders the best chance to win, and if he failed Philly gets the ball back with a timeout. Not the biggest deal, but if you make it, its game over.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 22, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also to be honest, lets say we get the ball back.
Do you have confidence that we score? I don’t!
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 22, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my point
I doubt we score- no way are we going 80+ yards and scoring a TD.
In the end I don’t think it would’ve mattered to the Raiders as far as the call, because they knew that fact too.
by bdawk4ever on Oct 22, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt we score- no way are we going 80+ yards and scoring a TD.
So you’re content the way it ended? You wouldn’t at least want a shot and putting together a drive and winning it?
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 23, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your ENTIRE argument is predicated on the assumption that the Raiders playbook changes depending on the timing of the Eagles time outs, AND I DON’T BUY IT.
I’m not stupid. I can read and comprehend the English language perfectly well. I DISAGREE with you, and you stand there 100% sure of your correctness, when this is a matter of opinion. You cannot state what you are stating as fact, as you have been doing since the Eagles lost the game.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 21, 2009 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I Agree with the arguement given by Dawk now, but don't necessarily think it was a factor.
I think that coach Cable would have called a pass play regardless to when Andy used his timeout. Because coach didn’t want to punt the ball back to the Eagles. And rushing the ball almost guarantees the Eagles get the ball back w/ 2 minutes. But the timeout did make the decision to pass easier.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 21, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All it did was nearly guarantee the play would be a pass. But Bye Dawk can’t possibly claim he knows any better than anyone else what play Cable would call had the time out not been called when it was. I think they pass regardless. He sees it differently. That’s fine.
I don’t need to be told “I just don’t get it” in a condescending as all hell manner when the truth is “I just don’t agree with you.”
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 21, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I hear you.
I just read from Whodie, and we agree that who knows what the Cable call would have been. I think Cable needed to be aggressive at that spot anyway. And a pass play would have won the game, where as the run guarantees another Eagle drive (even though they keep 1 time out). I call short pass to a RB on an out (accross) in front of Trotter. Which is what we got. I think that was the game plan regardless.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 22, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't mean to sound condescending...
And sorry… I guess it did come across that way.
But the fact remains… This is not an opinion – Calling a timeout there was stupid, end of story.
We can arrange a conference call if you’d like. I can probably explain it better verbally.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 4:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Wow you’re the one that’s not fucking getting it.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 22, 2009 4:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This guy says it way better than you have:
Sure, they may have thrown anyway had the Eagles saved the timeout for after the two-minute warning, but they would have had incentive to run and make the Eagles burn their final timeout. I say it’s 50-50 they would have thrown, but with the way the Eagles managed the clock, they made sure it would be 100% throw.
http://www.phawker.com/2009/10/19/sporto-the-anatomy-of-defeat/
All I’m saying is that I think the Raiders would’ve thrown it regardless, and that the use of the time outs is irrelevant. You’re not even allowing for the possibility the Raiders would’ve thrown. You keep saying the 2:02 time out was the only reason they threw. I am disagreeing with that assessment.
Now, do YOU get it?
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 22, 2009 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To FURTHER explain why I think the Raiders go for it, it’s a simple case of risk vs. reward.
Raiders pass over the middle to Zach Miller (these are OBVIOUSLY estimates, but I think you’d have a hard time disagreeing with them)
~20% chance they complete for the first down. <- Best case scenario. Ends the game.
~25% they complete short of the first <- Eagles are forced to take time out.
~20% Sack <- Eagles are forced to take time out.
~30% chance it’s incomplete. <- Second worst scenario. Eagles get an extra time out but still must receive the punt and score without turning it over.
~3% chance it’s intercepted. <- Worst case scenario. Very unlikely but still possible.
So, you have a chance to put the game away, and you’re saying you wouldn’t because there’s A CHANCE your decision backfires and gives the other team an extra play and that extra play costs you the game? What kind of message does that send to your team? Tom Cable passes.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 22, 2009 5:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, you're still not getting it...
Let’s schedule a call.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 22, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can almost feel yomjoseki’s blood boiling. lol.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by Route36 on Oct 22, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
Seriously though… I’d actually like to discuss it live in a nice, calm forum.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 22, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not the only person disagreeing with you. Right now, you’re just being an asshole about this. You can’t sit there and act like I “don’t get it.”
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 22, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must be doing a poor job explaining it on “paper.” Call me on my cell at 201-294-4080 and we can talk it out. bdawk4ever, that’s an invitation for you, too, or for anyone else for that matter.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 23, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and cue the late night barrage of phone calls …
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Oct 23, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now every overweight female Eagles fan looking for some late night loving gonna blow up Dawk. Your in for it now baby! I can imagine that fake sexy voice trying to cover up that raspy waitress voice. The thought makes me cringe.
Bleed green, or don't bleed at all!
by yophillybro on Oct 23, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We get it
But we disagree. IT DOESN’T MATTER. They would’ve called the pass, and regardless, the Eagles wouldn’t have scored.
by bdawk4ever on Oct 22, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would not throw it anyway because even if they are a garbage team, they are desperate to win. They saw how bad we were on offense. Why would they have passed when they don’t have a reason to? Wait till the 2 minute warning, run the ball, force Andy to use the timeout, punt the ball with the best punter in the league which would pin the Eagles deep and let the defense do what they did all night. The last thing they would want is making a mistake to cost them the game.
You say the Eagles would be better off, under EVERY scenario, if they had waited to call the time out, when the truth is the Eagles would be better off IF AND ONLY IF the Raiders throw an incomplete pass.
How could the Eagles be better off only if the Raiders throw an incomplete pass?? What about if they passed and got tackled in bounds short of the first down…or passed short of the first down and their guy went out of bounds and stopped the clock….or ran the ball? NO MATTER WHAT, the Eagles would be better off with that time out. You can argue its 50-50 they might pass or run, but you can’t argue that timeout was STUPID and could have altered Cable’s playcalling.
Andy Reid has to live with Sunday's reality: He was out coached by Tom Cable. (John Clayton)
An inconsistent coach is far worse than an inconsistent quarterback.(Route 36)
by Route36 on Oct 22, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, because they save more time if they call the time out where they did and it’s a complete pass and it’s short? Or if they ran the ball? Not even the Raiders would be dumb enough to run out of bounds.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 22, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 















