Has McNabb shown the ability to be clutch?
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 11:20 AM EDT
71 comments
Besides the obvious criteria of championships won, I measure the quality of my quarterback by how clutch he is. Specifically, I want to see my quarterback lead game-winning drives. Can anyone tell me the number of game-winning drives McNabb has led in the 4th quarter or overtime of a game? I sadly can't remember one. As a team, how many times have the Eagles (in the McNabb era) come from behind in the 4th-quarter to win a game? Again, I can't remember one. There has to be a few.
0 recs |
71 comments
Email
Print
Comments
11
Eagles fan since December 10, 1995
by Eagles675 on Oct 10, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
SEEMS LIKE DONAVAN HAS A LITTLE BACK LUCK 2......................
Remember we went down the field 2 take the lead the last time we played Tampa Bay even tho Westy made the play, only to get screwed on a mysterious 60 sumtin yard field goal. Another classic i can remember was the Packer playoff game where we got the miracle 4th and 21 play. Donavan engineered that drive to get us the field goal and eventually win it in OT.
Refresh my memory people with some other game winning or tying drives by DMAC.
by goldenbird09 on Oct 10, 2009 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was 4th and 26.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Oct 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can someone not remember 4th and 26....
that’s arguably my favorite eagles moment.
"it's like i tell my ex-wife, i never drive faster than i can see, and besides it's all in the reflexes." -Jack Burton, Big trouble in little China
by snowhill82 on Oct 10, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oooooohhhhhhh..........
OMG im so sorry i forgot it was 4th and 26…….do u think i can live ???? i wonder if i will be let into heavens gates for making a mistake of that magnitude. hahaha please
by goldenbird09 on Oct 10, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly? I don’t think so. Jesus is an Eagles fan.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 10, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
Why would the only two criteria by which to measure the greatness of a QB be a.) championships won and b.) clutchness? There are so many other factors to consider. And also, where the hell is this coming from?
by ajay on Oct 10, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ur right but....................
there are many other factors in measuring a QBs greatness but unfortunetely for us and Donavan as well those 2 u mentioned happen 2 be the most important. Its just a fact. Dont u think Donavan would trade all his team records and every divsion title just for 1 SB??
Of course he would.
by goldenbird09 on Oct 10, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2001: MNF Eagles vs. Giants
Down in the 4th quarter 3-9, McNabb hits James Thrash for an 18-yard TD to win the game. Final score is 10-9.
2003: Eagles vs. Packers
McNabb caps off the final 4th quarter drive with a 6-yard TD to Todd Pinkston. Final score is 17-14.
2006: Eagles vs. Buccaneers
This one is interesting to say the least. The last time we faced the Bucs, we entered the 4th quarter down 7-17. McNabb quickly hits “Downtown” Reggie Brown for a TD, so the score is now 14-17. On the ensuing drive, we allow a 44-yard Matt Bryant field goal, so the score is now 14-20. Now late in the game on our last drive, McNabb passes to Westbrook, who burns the defense for a 52-yard touchdown. We are up 21-20 when the unthinkable happens – Matt Bryant’s 62-yard field goal to seal our defeat in the final seconds of the game.
Technically, McNabb made the game winning drive, even if Westbrook did a lot of the work. Not only that, but he staged a comeback throughout the entire 4th quarter. The fact that we lost doesn’t change the fact that McNabb was composed and delivered us TD drives.
All in all, McNabb will never be known for his game-winning-drive-abilitiy. There are far to few instances where he showed the ability, and I can only think of a handful off the top of my head – which isn’t a good thing. Who knows, maybe “seasoned” McNabb will loosen up a bit and kill teams in the 4th quarter.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Oct 10, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Same play as the TampaBay screen...........
Also against the lowly redskins a couple years ago, i beleive we were trailing and Donavan threw the sreen i think to Westy to have him once again make a unbeleivabley sick TD score. While both of these plays were 90 % Westbrook , Donavan was the QB on the field.
Some others that just came to mind were a MNF football game against the Pack were Donavan hit Stinkston for the go ahead TD and a game against Oakland in which we had a long drive to setup Akers for the game winner.
by goldenbird09 on Oct 10, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah clutchness…like ‘grittiness’….people claim it actually exists yet can’t prove who has it or not (becasuse no one truly measures it)…the argument of small minds and small sample size
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I enjoy the world of ideas, theories and opinions. Since when did the black and white world of measurement monopolize all the geniuses? Can you not think beyond the lines of a ruler? Turn around dude, you’re just staring at shadows on a wall.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow – lots of useless metaphors but here’s the thinga bout clutch – people have pre judged who is and isn’t clutch and their memory then filters it through to prove it. Tom Brady is clutch because no one remembers the mistakes he made – Eli Manning is considered clutch because of one impossible catch made by a wide receiver in a super bowl – and yet his career numbers still indicate he’s a mediocre quarterback.
You don’t think Donovan McNabb is clutch – so you’ll only remember the ‘clutch’ situations where he fails – not succeeds – because it doesn’t fit your world view.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
O.k. wise guy…Ben Rothlisberger has led the Steelers to 20 come-from-behind victories in his 5 years in the league. He also has two Super Bowl victories (one in which he was a major reason and the first they only got to because of his outstanding AFC playoff play). McNabb, thanks to the excellent memory of others in this blog, has very few in his 10 years and has not led his team to victory on the biggest game of the post season 5 separate times. By these significant measures, BR is clutch and has been many times over, McNabb has been clutchless. I am not prejudging. My argument is on measures. My worldview is based on critical analysis on the evidence. Of course I have my bias, one is that I find you to be an arrogant #$#! So, I will find your arguments less reliable than others.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s ok – i understand how statistics and facts confuse the hyperbolic small minded folks.
I’m sure Eskin agrees with you – so that would make you happy.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you give a convincing argument or are you all about ridicule?
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Bradys passer rating was 8.3 points lower in the clutch (in 2007) than it was overall. In 2006 it was 28.1 points lower. In 2004 it was 27.4 points lower. This is not to say that Brady is a choke artist; his passer rating was higher in 2002, 2003 and 2005. It’s just to say that over the long haul, Brady in the clutch is pretty much the same quarterback he is the rest of the time: really darn good”
“Manning (Eli) aside (this shocked me), clutch QBs don’t exist for the same reason clutch hitters don’t: If a player could truly elevate his game at will, why wouldn’t he play that way all the time”.
Aaron Schatz, Football Outsiders, ESPN THe Magazine October 5th 2009 “What do Santa and Clutch QBs have in common? Neither Exists”
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of stats here…but how are you measuring “quarterback rating in the clutch?” Are you saying that in game winning or losing drives, these are his stats or are these overall ratings? And if these stats are comparing his overall rating to these drives in particular games, don’t we have to compare the defenses he’s playing against? I think these stats can become messy quickly and really obfuscate any truth in the argument.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t measuring anything, someone else was (hence the quotation marks and references to an article in a magazine) – Football Outsiders is one of the more ‘advanced’ metrics organizations out there – they didn’t present their methodology.
But they aren’t the only ones who do the work – i just happened to remember reading that a week or so ago (I don’t pay for the damn magazine but they keep sending it)…
It’s your premise – prove it correct – common internet methodology is to make a point or premise and then instead of proving it – look for others to prove you wrong – which means said argument has no credibility to rational folk.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is – if you bothered to use this new fangled tool called google – you’d find a lot of information out there on this exact topic.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with jemagee 100% here … clutch is nothing more than a made up acknowledgment bestowed upon those who are simply doing their job.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Oct 12, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to respectfully disagree. Clutchness definitely exists, and it is measurable. The more game-winning drives you engineer, the more clutch you are – it’s that simple. Being clutch is about staying composed and delivering when all the chips are down, so I would say 4th quarter come-from-behind drives would be a valid form of measurement.
Also, not everything in this world needs to be quantified in order to exist. That’s where the term “intangibles” comes from when used in football. For example, how do you quantify work ethic? We know some athletes work harder than others, but there is no way to measure how this work manifests itself in the game. You just “know” that one athlete shows more discipline than the other.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Oct 10, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how jeejee doesn’t like my stats but comes up with his own and resorts to ridicule when I ask him to examine his own arguments as much as he does others.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clutchness
So, is Tom Brady “clutch” because Leodis McKelvin can’t hold on to a kickoff return?
Maybe Tom Brady used his ESP mindpowers to make him fumble so that Brady had a chance to win.
by Andrew B on Oct 10, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t say there were no other variables in the equation, I just said that there tends to be a correlation between game-winning drives and quarterbacks who we perceive as clutch. Quarterbacks don’t play the game in a vacuum, so of course other factors will come into play, but you should be able to get an idea of a quarterback’s “clutchness” by looking at comeback 4th quarter drives.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Oct 10, 2009 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh, … people call Eli clutch because Tyree made an insane catch, Big Ben is clutch because of a miracle catch where 2 feet may or may not have touched the ground. Who is the clutch performer in those plays?
Is Peyton Manning clutch? I think a lot of people would say yes now but prior to Super Bowl XLI people would have said he’s the guy who can’t win the big game.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Oct 12, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Delhomme leads the league in grit.
I am the people's troll :3™
by yomjoseki on Oct 10, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
this past NFC Championship game? He brought us back down three TD’s. We may have lost, but I define that as ‘clutch’.
by LegendKnight22 on Oct 10, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was awesome how he brought them back to take the lead but clutch would have been scoring on that final drive to win the game.
Madden 10 says Mcnabb has 11 4th quarter/overtime comebacks. In comparison,Peyton Manning has 41 including the one against the Dolphins on MNF this year.
Felix is better than Brian. You can call me FIBTB.
by Route36 on Oct 10, 2009 3:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I agree…gotta win to be clutch. And gotta produce in a game-winning situation. Kind of like Pat the Bat hitting a solo home run to close the lead to within 10. Let’s see him or anyone else do it when the game is on the line. Interesting about the 11 comebacks…wonder what other ones we’ve missed.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
these are team sports correct? So one player can be “clutch” make a the big play like the McNabb to Westbrook TD in the final minutes against Tampa in 06 only for the D to give up some ground and a 62 yard field goal.
McNabb did his job lead a “game winning” drive but the D/STs lost it, same in Arizona. This is a dumb argument for team sports.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
by Whodie126 on Oct 12, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Be Clutch ...
Either you or your defense has to suck for most of the game to put you in a bad situation.
The speciality of the Andy Reid Eagles is to win games by midway through the 3rd quarter, not to engineer miracle come from behinds.
Frankly, I’d rather win 2 out of every 3 games going away than have 40 come from behind victories.
by Andrew B on Oct 10, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does Madden say about
Eli? And Big Ben?
by LegendKnight22 on Oct 10, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only play with the Eagles. That’s how pro-Eagles I am. lol
Felix is better than Brian. You can call me FIBTB.
by Route36 on Oct 11, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many opportunities did they have.
ANd we’re using a video game as a source of statistical information?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
it DOES sound about right. I mean, he’s never really known for making a comeback (usually because our offense and defense is so damn good)
Payton’s 41 doesn’t surprise me one bit.
by LegendKnight22 on Oct 10, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s because that video game uses real stats. On the MNF game between the Colts and Dolphins this year, which I was watching, it said Peyton Manning had 40 4th quarter comebacks. After that game, he now has 41.
Felix is better than Brian. You can call me FIBTB.
by Route36 on Oct 11, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not dumb at all....
I wouls say “clutchness” is a measure of a QB being great (Brady, Manning, Rothlisberger) or just very good (Mcnabb)
Mcnabb did lead the Eagles sort of on the game winning drive in the championship game last year ( I say sort of because he threw a bomb that Jackson luckily caught…its not like it was some long drawn out drive where Mcnabb himself had to make play after play…he made one great throw and he almost overthrew jackson) however that wasnt even the last drive of the game…on the last drive Mcnabb choked by overthrowing two of the 4 downs before the curtis drop.
Mcnabb also choked in the superbowl and multiple nfc title games.
Bottom line…Mcnabb is very good…but not clutch. Eli Manning is clutch…Mcnabb isnt and he never has been really. Hes still a very good QB..but hes not clutch.
by Gdog2009 on Oct 10, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So in your mind Eli Manning would be a better quarterback than Donovan Mcnabb?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe in a 4th quarter comeback but not overall.
Felix is better than Brian. You can call me FIBTB.
by Route36 on Oct 10, 2009 3:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s not forget that Manning clutchness is mostly defined by one play which was a crappy throw and an amazing improbable catch. If WR drops that ball – Manning isn’t known as clutch.
A QB makes a grew throw and the WR misses it – over time the memory forgets that the WR messed it up but remembers the incompletion.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll give you this one…Manning is a “small sample size”…not enough to judge him. But how about Ben R.? 20 comebacks. The guy has produced, and on the biggest stage when the game was on the line. How about 3 Superbowl victories for Brady. I can’t stand Brady or the Pats, but I have to admit that he’s been pretty amazing over his career. Despite my bias against him and his team…I call it as I see it.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about the fact that there are 53 guys on a football roster.
One guy neither wins nor loses – for every great pass a QB makes, someone has to catch it – or it’s just an incomplete pass…it’s well known that for the majority of his career McNabbs receiving core hasn’t exactly been ‘elite’ guys who scare the crap out of other teams.
People seem obsessed with finding ways to call McNabb a bad quarterback…no wonder it gets on his nerves…appreciate the greatness he is – because great QB’s don’t grow on trees, and when his career is over it’s quite doubtful that the next QB will be as good as he is.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 10, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually do believe that McNabb is a very good quarterback and granted, his receivers (minus TO) until the last two years have been less than adequate. My biggest problem with McNabb has been his lack of leadership. If I were to criticize him as a player (and not look at on-field measurements), it would be the fact that the guy has historically pouted on the sidelines when his team has been losing. I remember many times seeing him sitting alone with that white towel on his head. I also don’t hear him taking the blame first when things go wrong. By contrast, have you ever watched Brady or Rothlisberger on the sidelines? They pump their guys up. Yep, they’re clutch leaders from any way I see it.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about hearing him taking the blame? You realize he gets the blame regardless if he says it or not? Why not pout or be upset while on the sideline if you are losing? Usually when you see the towel on his head, the game is pretty much wrapped up or in the books. Being loud/vocal/fired up every second isn’t a requirement for a good leader either (calm, cool, and collective Qbs?). Bottom line, everyone has different personalities and the way they come off should not be used as a meter stick in judging their “leadership”, especially if the whole team is behind a quarterback.
Clutch is hard to judge because there are so many variables.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
by soman319 on Oct 10, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chill, nobody is calling Mcnabb a bad QB. 4th quarter comebacks mean your team has to be down to make a comeback. The Eagles have not been down enough for him to have a lot of opportunities, thanks to great defenses and what not. Mcnabb is one of the greatest of all time and should be a Hall of Famer even if he never wins a Superbowl.
Felix is better than Brian. You can call me FIBTB.
by Route36 on Oct 11, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did it again to the Cowboys couple weeks ago. I also remember a heart breaking Manning to Plaxico game winning td pass a couple years ago. Manning is not a great QB as Mcnabb is but he is much better than people give him credit.
Felix is better than Brian. You can call me FIBTB.
by Route36 on Oct 11, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is dumb
If a QB throws 2 interceptions and fumble once, but then manages to “overcome” his mistakes and win through some flukely plays, is he great? That is a typical “clutch” come from behind type of game.
by Andrew B on Oct 10, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so....
He hits his receiver in the hands, and said receiver is being tripped, but that is somehow his fault?
I also love that you not only expect a TD, but that you expect a certain type of drive wherein the QB becomes an ubermensch, a superman, a shrugging atlas who wills his team to victory through his superior being.
And I know it’s been said, but it is worth repeating: Eli’s trademark drive was not Eli succeeding, but Asante Samuel failing.
As for the other NFC title games, those were team loses. Did you happen to actually watch the Carolina game? That was not McNabb choking, that was McNabb playing through an injury with lousy receivers.
Honestly, I am sick of this conversation. Ben Roethlesberger, even before his excellent Superbowl last year, was being called clutch despite posting a sub 30 QB rating in his first SB try. Brett Favre’s clutchness is never called into question despite only one SB appearance, and that game belonged to the special teams. Remember who lost the 4th and 26th game?
I don’t know where McNabb belongs in the pantheon of QBs, and frankly I don’t care. His intelligence, his instinct, and his “leadership” have all been called into question despite a career most QBs would kill for, and I would love you to ask the Eagle’s locker room who their leader is.
by Livingonapear on Oct 11, 2009 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Respect...
I admire you for sticking by your quarterback and will respectfully disagree. I agree that Eli is not a good example of clutch. I also agree that Roethlisberger had a poor Superbowl I, but that guy made play after play to get them to the Superbowl. Nobody is perfect in the clutch. To be realistic, we’d have to look at this from a percentage of success in said situations. I’m not expecting a TD drive but what it takes to win. I agree that receivers and for that matter, the entire offense and opposing defense play a large factor. Yes, this is a messy argument. That’s what makes it fun.
by Soren K on Oct 11, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am more than willing
to admit to McNabb’s faults. He has a nasty penchant for throwing the ball into the ground and missing some sure fire short passes. Those are negatives. I also will not make the argument that he is as good as Peyton or Brady, or even Drew Brees. My problem is that we are not seeing our QB for what he is, and we are inventing problems for him instead of focusing on his real flaws.
by Livingonapear on Oct 11, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing to think about ...
if you are determining his ability to be clutch by leading game-winning drives, you have to think about how many times we are in need of a game-winning drive. Statistically our Defense has been one of the best, top ten if im not mistaken, over the last decade and has often been able to keep us ahead in games. I’m not saying that our defense is the reason why Donovan doesn’t have that many game-winning drives because he has his share of plays that make you scratch your head, but the defense is just another thing to think about.
by jdcvr6 on Oct 10, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe the main reason the Eagles have had the success they have is because of that defense. How many times can you recall our offense doing nothing and our defense winning big games? Still, when we’re behind in the fourth, we have rarely had success in the last 10 years.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, bear in mind McNabb and Manning have had two entirely different quality defenses
More often then not, the Eagles have had a much better defense then that of the Colts. Manning is surreal, and is certainly the best quarterback in the league, but the real measurement here would be winning percentage of games decided by seven points or less. That gives a good indicator of how ‘clutch’ players are without having to worry about that 4th quarter comeback nonsense.
by cwel87 on Oct 10, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clutch
Was it McNabb’s fault in 2007 when he lead them for a 4th quarter come from behind victory over the Bears, only to see the defense cough up 97 yards in 57 seconds? I guess he wasn’t “clutch” enough on defense.
Oh wait … that’s not his unit …
by Andrew B on Oct 10, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you recall how they managed the time in that drive? I don’t…just raise the question. I hate when my team leaves any time for the opposition. Maybe not the case here…not sure.
by Soren K on Oct 11, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hating your team for leaving time on the clock is fine.
But saying the QB isn’t clutch after getting a late lead is ridiculous. A defense should be able to deal with 57 seconds. You can’t put that on a QB.
by NOLACuse on Oct 12, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you have to think about how many times we are in need of a game-winning drive.
Really good point.
"THIS IS NOT COLLEGE NO MORE. THIS IS THE BIG MAN SPORT." ~Crazy Lady on BGN forums
by southjersey89 on Oct 10, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who has about 10 years worth of game-by-game play-by-play data...
From profootballreference.com
For it to be a 4th quarter comeback win, you must:
- Win the game (no ties or losses)
- Take the field with a 1–8 pt deficit (1–7 prior to 1994) and score as an offense (no fumble return TD to win the game)
- It does not have to be the final winning score (hence, that applies to the number of game-winning drives)
The ideal 4th quarter comeback analysis would be to:
1. Identify the games where a comeback (from a 1–8 pt deficit) was possible: this gives you all successes and failures. Just telling me a QB has 10 comebacks does not mean a whole heck of a lot. But if you tell me he has 10 comebacks in 13 comeback opportunities, I can probably say he’s doing a great job. If he has 10 comebacks in 30 opportunities, he might be someone only as good as Jon Kitna.
2. Identify the situation of the drive: time it started and ended, starting field position, number of timeouts, etc. Not all comebacks/drives are created equal. It’s a lot harder to come back from a 4-8 pt deficit with 30 seconds and no timeouts than it is to start the 4th quarter on the 1-yard line, down by a point.
3. Collect the drive statistics: attempts, completions, yards, length and number of plays, etc. Just your usual QB statistics. Obviously going 8/8 for 80 yards and a TD beats going 1/5 for 8 yards to set up a long FG.
4. Create advanced statistics to better understand performance: average deficit, average yards to go, average time left, points per drive, percentage of 3-and-outs, turnover likelihood, "blown saves", etc. Along with having the number of successes and failures, this would be the most useful part of comeback analysis. This is how you can begin to answer who’s really the biggest choker in the league. Unfortunately you need solid play-by-play data here, so the number of seasons you can obtain this type of data is greatly limited.
"Right now Winston Justice is the guy...until that person gets back out there"
by EvilBanner on Oct 10, 2009 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice Thinking
I like your analysis. It would be interesting to see how many opportunities and then how many comebacks. Regarding number 2, it’s also harder to come back when your team doesn’t know when to use time outs nor how to run a 2 minute offense.
by Soren K on Oct 10, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By this measure
Mark Rypien was a better QB than Dan Marino. After all, he won a title.
by wildcatlh on Oct 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
McNabb Comebacks
If you want to consider the types of Comeback McNabb is actually good at, I’d say look at the Chiefs game in 2005, or the Cardinals playoffs last year, where McNabb and the offense came back from 3 touchdown deficits before the end of the 4th quarter.
by Andrew B on Oct 10, 2009 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Clutch Performances
Is McNabb not clutch because Tony Hunt and Matt Schobel couldn’t block to save their lives vs. the Bears last year?
by Andrew B on Oct 10, 2009 8:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lets be honest...
A lot of Mcnabb defenders here. Rightfully so the guy is a very good borderline great QB. BUT…how many Eagle fans had confidence that the Eagles would drive down the field last year and win the NFC title game with Mcnabb at the helm ? How about the superbowl against the Pats ? Those 2 drives had poor play after poor play—A lot of them Mcnabb missing wide open receivers….despite everyone saying he had no receivers some of those plays the wideouts were WIDE OPEN ! . I love the Eagles and Mcnabb…but I would prefer not to have the game on the line in his hands……Eli or Peyton ? Yes. Big Ben or Brady…yes. Mcnabb….NO.
I would say in every other scenario Mcnabb is better than Eli….but not on game on the line drives. And I HATE the Giants and their A-hole fans but it is what it is.
by Gdog2009 on Oct 11, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree
I love mcnabb as well, but he definitely does not have the 2 min drive figured out, especially in the 4th. I remember watching the last nfc championship right when we got the ball back after they scored their last td. I told my friend, we are going to lose because mcnabb is terrible in 2 min drives….and then he comes out and throws some grounders.
With that said, I think hes a great qb, its just frustrating to have such a talent, but not be able to finish the game when we need him too.
by Tbot86 on Oct 11, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
again, completely willing
to admit to McNabb’s short comings. Would I rather have Eli than McNabb? no. I see no difference between Eli’s hail Mary and 4-26. In fact, I would argue that McNabb was more responsible for 4-26 than Eli was for Tyree’s catch.
And if you have some clips of McNabb missing the wide open recievers against the Cardinals, I would love to see them. As far as I am concerned, he may have missed some, but he hit the guy that mattered (Kevin Curtis) in the hands.
by Livingonapear on Oct 11, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
clips ? anyone who watched those two games knows the deal. I’m pretty sure it was Desean jackson and hank baskett as the two open receivers he missed. Didnt you watch the game or is your response based upon sportscenter highlights ? And by the way…Eli Manning took the giants o the road and won in green bay and in dallas. give the guy credit.
by Gdog2009 on Oct 11, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
