Props to McNabb/Gocong
by Dawk on Jan 5, 2009 12:45 PM EST
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PrintFirst, I have to say that I was one of those bashing McNabb a bit earlier this season. I was not one of those who wanted him gone but I was certainly not happy with his play and was vocal about it. Here is my official apology to Mr. McNabb. I would call him the MVP of the Vikings game. I thought he was amazing. He was pressured all day and still managed to make plays at key junctures. The screen to Westbrook was a fantastic throw with players in his face. Perfectly timed. A couple of great third down throws were made to Celek and Avant with little to no time.
Second, I see Gocong getting bashed all the time on some of these blogs so I have to say I think he has been great lately. He had two fantastic stops on 3rd downs. In both cases, he was being blocked and managed to break free to make the tackle. I think he has been a key against the run and has not gotten the props he deserves. We all know Stew Bradley has been lights out but Gocong has been a big reason for the success against the run. He is also out there on coverage teams making plays. Once JJ started having the safeties cover the tight ends, Gocong was less exposed and I think it has clearly paid off.
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What has he done?
All this praise for McNabb has me confused .The reason the Eagles are playing so well is that Reid has finally realized that counting on McNabb to win games isnt the way to go. He will choke sooner or later, he is not a leader and he is all about himself not team.As long as McNabb is just put in a position to manage the outcome and depend on Westbrook and the Defense the Eagles are a very dangerous team.
are you serious?
he passed for 300 yards, completed over 67% of his passes, had a QB rating of92.7 and countless times drove the eagles from deep in their own territory down the field thereby giving the eagles the advantage in field position. as for him not being a leader, before the eagles went on a tear earlier this year, he called a players only meeting and things turned around. and i don’t even know what makes you think he’s all about himself and not the team. that has zero credibility.
+1
He avoided 172 sacks yesterday, made plays and marched this team out of there own endzone multiple times. To say McNabb is selfish is ridiculous and to say he doesn’t deserve praise is borderline insanity.
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
I was commenting on his career more than just yesterdays games. U can cite all the stats u want but the bottom line is from 2002 thru 2004 the Eagles were the best team in the NFC if not the league. He has never led them to a come from behind game when its mattered. And those losses in the NFC champions games and the 1 loss in the super bowl can be attributed to his poor and choking play . Numbers and stats are for losers except the 1 stat that counts and that the amount of Super Bowl Rings u have won..
As far a yesterdays game goes they were playing Brad Childress, Tavaris Jackson ,and a mediocore one trick Viking team. I dont know about you but iI was never worried they would lose that game .
4th and 26
i believe that was a comeback game when it mattered, and he single handedly keep the eagles in the playoffs with that play.
4th and 26
If he hadnt played so poorly ,I seem to remember a McNabb Fumble that led to the first packers TD, it never would have come down to 4 and 26 and Freddie made his one and only big catch for the birds.After all they only scored 17 points in regulation. Do u really want to base a defense of McNabb on one of the luckest plays ever?
you said NEVER
so yes who won the game when it mattered mcnabb. saying that he fumbled earlier in the game is meaninless who one the game. the eagles did. saying if mcnabb didnt fumble early in the game is like saying well montana wouldn’t have won his first superbowl if dwight clasr was a foot shorter and couldn’t jump, or saying that the giants wouldn’t have one if Asante didnt drop that INT but things happen during a game all that matters is who wins in the end
Fumble?
Yes, McNabb’s fault that Offensive Line, Tight Ends, and Backs gave up 8 sacks to the Packers. Probably using his evil Jedi mind powers to make them miss blocks. McNabb also used his evil Jedi mindpowers to make David Akers miss a 33 yard field goal, so that Eagles would be trailing at the end of the game and need 4th and 26.
numbers and stats are for losers?
what else should we base success on? pure super bowl wins? ok…here’s a great list:
Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, and Brad Johnson all won superbowls. are you saying they are all better than mcnabb? if so, you’re insane.
additionally, john elway, a hall of fame quarterback, did not win a super bowl until his final two seasons, despite getting to the super bowl 3 times prior in his career (much like mcnabb getting to th NFC championship and losing 3 times prior). his final two seasons were his 15th and 16th seasons, and mcnabb is in his 10th. sure i would have liked to seen them win a super bowl, but failure to do so doesn’t mean he sucks. and as far as his choke job in the SB, at the end, yah, that was pathetic, but…
McNabb finished the game with 30 completions for 357 yards, the third highest total for both categories in Super Bowl history, and 3 touchdowns. and as for your bash of reid further down this page, he’s the one who took us out of the shitter of the league and put us in the elite over the past decade.
Losers
Dan Fouts, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton, Dan Marino, Randall Cunningham … BIG L L.O.S.E.R.S!
Trent Dilfer – hall of famer
Jeff Hostetler – easily the best QB of all time
Doug Williams – how could he not have been a regular starter even today
Brad Johnson – God Incarnate
Eli Manning – the greatest QB evuh!
Dilfer Hoestetler Williams Johnson E. Manning Bad QBS but Super Bowl Winners
Fouts Kelly Tarkington McNabb Losers all had very good teams behind them and couldnt get it done.
Marino never had a defense for the most part so he only got the 1 chance not 4 and Randall never cared enough
Twist the numbers anyway you want McNabbs a Loser and will never win a championship with the Eagles or any other team he may go to and thats the bottom line.
U Defenders have cited numbers and compared McNabb to others when it suits your arguement but from 2002 thru 2004 no other team had a easier road or competition to get to the playoffs and to a Super Bowl Yet Reid and McNabb Could only Manage it once out of 3 times.They did manage to beat that Powerhouse of a team the Atlanta Falcons led by That Star for the Ages Micheal Vick.And then the dynamic duo both came up small .
As I recall, the Eagles scored 21 in the Super Bowl, but the defense allowed 24. The normal winning formula is defense allows no more than 17, offense scores at least 20.
So by all means, lets blame the offense for givign up the 24 points that actually caused the loss? With no mention of the bad play by Dawkins, Sheppard, Ware, and Co., except for the tire marks on their back?
andrew that's real talk
no running game in the super bowl. No ‘D’ and no help for #5.
now, #5 didn’t play well, but it’s a shame what people ‘want’ to remember about the super bowl.
3 Picks?
At least one of those was a carom off the Little Hands of Concrete possesed by Little John Smith, who also fumbled a promising drive away and had another pass intedend for him picked off. If you want to level blame for interceptions and turnovers in the Super Bowl, you should look his way.
pressure
the O line dropped the ball in the Super Bowl…watch the game and tell me they protected McNabb….he was running for his life…and no, not scrambling for positive yards, trying to avoid the rush and mostly throwing incompletions…it was INDEFENSIBLE.
McNabb didn’t play his best game. BY NO MEANS. But he’ll redeem himself and all the Eagles fans who remember the Super Bowl loss by T.O. shining and McNabb being the “big game choker he is” – will have to accept that they should have been behind #5 and not slamming him.
Andrew, you forgot
Legend and former Eagle, Mark Rypien.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Jan 5, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Too numerous too mention
So many stellar QB’s like Rypien, you can’t mention or remember them all.
In 2100, the Hall of Fame will include every NFL QB to ever play the game except that loser McNabb who is the worst man to ever throw a football in a game. (/sarcasm)
Rypien = Hall of Famer… on grit alone
But T.O. and his sideline histrionics wear on a quarterback. He's like the hot stripper you tried to clean up and convert into a real girlfriend. It's a lot of fun until the moment she has her second drink while out to eat with your parents. You unravel quicker than she does.
NOT WHAT I SAID
Thanks for making my point about stats being for LOSERS. No none of those guys u mentioned are better than McNabb but they got their chance and took advantage of it so that makes them winners. When u are citing stats please be fair you failed to mention his 3 ints and that a big chunk of those yards and 1 td pass we given to him in exchange for time off the clock which if im not mistaken took 7 mins off the clock .
aww shucks, it sucks being a loser. woe is me…
so you said those guys are winners because they took advantage when given the opportunity, which leads me to believe that you would not put mcnabb in this category because he failed to capitalize on his opportunity to win a superbowl. so, personally, I would want a winner on my time rather than a loser. so by your standards of what maks someone a winner, I would rather have trent dilfer (whose superbowl victory had nothing to do with a smothering defense…) rather than dan marino or donovan mcnabb.
and as for that stat about touchdowns, I took it off wikipedia. and even if those did come at the expense of time on the clock (which is no surprise. I don’t recall ever seeing a touchdown drive take zero seconds), it’s still doubtful he “choked”. choking would be something like the egg he layed against cincy and baltimore this year…not losing to the most dominant franchise of the decade (vomit) in the superbowl in the final seconds.
I agree eagleyosh.
I think it is unfair to judge any player by Superbowl victories, QB might be the only one close enough to justify as they have the ball every offensive snap but it takes a team to win a Championship.
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
When you are normally ahead because of your superior play ...
… you rarely need to lead a come from behind effort.
funny i recall a blown coverage in the endzone and a wide open david without anyone within 5 yards of him scoring a touchdown. pretty sure that wasn’t mcnabb’s fault
uhhh...
im pretty sure he did this season against the giants and the cowboys. just to fall short. but the comeback was there
Who wants to play Leapfrog with Trent?
Faulty memory
The Eagles were leading the Cowboys through much of the late part of the game. Then the defense decided it was time to cough up a lot of points. The Eagles were leading 30 to 24 in the 3rd quarter, then 37 to 31 and 37 to 34 in the 4th quarter.
You can’t lead a comeback when you are in the lead until late in the game. Kind of self-evident, no?
Yes, he had a chance to lead a comeback at the end of the game, but so what? Hadn’t he done enough by getting 30 points on the board to add to the 7 produced by Demps? The Eagles hadn’t lost a game where they scored 37 points in 30 years.
Against the Giants, McNabb wasn’t given a chance to lead a comeback, Westbrook and the O-Line were, and they failed, just like Buckhalter, Hunt, and the O-Line failed against the Bears. McNabb can’t be the “leader” of a comeback hading the ball off to the running back.
are you secretly a cowboys fan?
you speak blasphemy in these words
4th and 26!!!!
your stupid
"My first and foremost goal is to win a Super Bowl. I also set goals in terms of having a type of year to make the Pro Bowl. If I'm going to the Pro Bowl, I know I'm making plays for the team." Brian Dawkins
I agree on Gocong, he has quietly been having a nice year.
I would like to see him blitzing more, but due to his size, he is always left back for run support, he looks hard to block and seems to do a good job in jamming the lead blocker and breaking plays inside for Bradley.
He’s had a b- year IMO, not bad for a LB who Sheldon Brown believes will be a probowler some day.
Philles (80 & 08)
Team of Destiny!
McNabb is not perfect
JD 1, you actually raise concerns I have raised in the past. I still feel he plays himself as a martyr and whines an awful lot about his situation in Philly. I cannot stand his interviews but that has little to do with what happens on the field. I too have questioned his leadership ability. In the past, I just said that I hoped others would lead the team because McNabb was not doing it.
There is something different about him lately from a leadership perspective. I have not seem him this excited to win before. He was elated after that Westbrook score. He was helping Dawk off the turf in the Cowboys game. He just looks more like a team player than I have seen in the past. Maybe I am just looking for it more now and have not given him the credit he is due.
To say “what has he done” proves you either hate the guy and cannot be a true Eagles fan or you are not actually watching the games. Even in the Redskins game he played well. It was just that nobody else could do anything. Even if you take out the stats from yesterdays game, which tell a story by themselves, he was awesome. He made plays that not many others could make. Again, everyone talks about Westbrook and Cole on that screen but McNabb’s throw was beautifully timed and done so under great distress.
Totally Unfair
To say Im not a true Eagles fan just because I dont worship at the feet of McNabb is unfair. I see a team that should have at least 2 Super Bowl titles ,and i see McNabb as the one of the 2 main reasons( the other is Reid) Im not saying he Stinks hes a very good athelete and good not great QB. But he doesnt have what it takes to be WINNER.
I see a team that should have at least 2 Super Bowl titles ,and i see McNabb as the one of the 2 main reasons ( the other is Reid)
haha this team isn’t a 2 superbowl team without the two of them, hahahaha
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
2 Lombardi's
I see a team that should have at least 2 Super Bowl titles
Based on what? Because you say so?
At their best, the Eagles won, 10 games once, 11 games twice, 12 games twice, and 13 games. 13 win teams win the Super Bowl about 21% of the time. 12 win teams win about 13% of the time. 11 win teams win about 4% of the time. 10 win teams win 2% of the time. 21+1313%4+4 + 2% = 60%
0.60 << 2.00
The Steelers probabilities of winning between 99 to 07 were 0.69, the Colts 1.23, the Patriots were 1.44, the Ravens 0.37, the Titans 0.60 (and will be 0.81 after this year), the Chargers 0.57, the Rams 0.76, the Packers 0.49, the Giants 0.20 (will be 0.32 after this year).
I could see you claiming we should have won once, but to claim “at least twice”?
Just 3 NFC teams have won a Super Bowl in the past 11 years. The 98 Broncos, 99 Rams, and 03 Patriots are the only #1 seeds to win a Super Bowl in the past 11 years. The Eagles have been very good, good enough to have a good chance, but never were they an unstoppable force.
Only sound argument on this entire page, thank you Andrew.
by Clyde Simmons on Jan 5, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
it's a shame we even had to argue this.
but you’re right thank you Andrew.
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
Fuckin moron. Eagles wouldn’t be close to the same team (they’d be much worse) without Reid and McNabb and wouldn’t have been to the conference championships or the superbowl.
Destroyer of Subject Lines :3™
Eagles minus Reid and McNabb
We’ve seen that team. It was the 1998 Eagles. They went 3-13 with much of the same core people (Tra Thomas, Dawk, Vincent, Taylor, Douglas, Duce, Hollis, Reese, Kalu, Mayberry, Detmer, Al Harris, Whiting, Trotter, etc.) who would make the team 11-5 two years later when Reid, Johnson, McNabb, Runyan, and Akers were added to the mix.
+1
"My first and foremost goal is to win a Super Bowl. I also set goals in terms of having a type of year to make the Pro Bowl. If I'm going to the Pro Bowl, I know I'm making plays for the team." Brian Dawkins
are you serious?
he whines? when has he EVER whined? it’s idiot comments like that that piss me off more than anything.
4th and 26!!!!
I am serious
The intent of this post was to give McNabb his due so I am not sure why I would bother to argue with you about when he whines or point out those examples to you. That is not what I want to do right now. The point was to look at the good in McNabb and recognize him for it since I have been quick to point out his shortcomings in the past.
Hey Dawk
If that guys has never heard McNabb whine he never will . Just let him continue to waste his money on McNabb and Eagles merchandise and be satisfied with just making the the playoffs by luck.McNabb wants a new contract and Laurie needs more money so everyone will be happy. Who knows maybe they will luck into a Championship some day as well.
laurie
.
here to you mr. JD 1 ive been a bgn member since today
"My first and foremost goal is to win a Super Bowl. I also set goals in terms of having a type of year to make the Pro Bowl. If I'm going to the Pro Bowl, I know I'm making plays for the team." Brian Dawkins
then why bother even bringing it up...
you cant praise someone and talk shit about them as well and not expect criticism … if all you wanted to do was elevate him with praise then you should of not even mentioned his “whining” as you say and tarnish you “recognizing him” … thats all im saying …
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
Well, this is a blog, so I believe posting your opinion and generating dialog is all within the realm of possibility. Not sure why you think you cannot do that. And if you read my initial post, I did not have a bad thing to say about McNabb.
Regardless, I will clarify what I was doing so that you might feel better and stop whining yourself. I was addressing JD 1’s post and stating that the guy is not perfect and there are things I wish he did not do. That does not mean he does not deserve props or than I cannot give him props for the way he has been playing as of late. That was my point. You can take it or leave it and I assume you will leave it but it certainly should not piss you off or cause you to brush it off as an “idiotic” comment.
im not saying you are not
I still feel he plays himself as a martyr and whines an awful lot about his situation in Philly
There your initially addressing him as a whiner, Its the first thing you say… Not a good opening statement for praise
The intent of this post was to give McNabb his due so I am not sure why I would bother to argue with you about when he whines or point out those examples to you. That is not what I want to do right now. The point was to look at the good in McNabb and recognize him for it since I have been quick to point out his shortcomings in the past.
I am not speaking in reference to your initial post but what clearly came from you in a reply … I was proud and somewhat in awe of a mcnabb hater apologizing, i thought it was very noble… my reply was in full direction towards your reply to JD’1 …. but once again i ask you , why point this out in your opening statement of a reply to give him praise when you actually did in your initial post… it just doesnt make sense … its like me pointing out a characteristic trait i hate of you and then telling you how much i love you and your my best friend… i would not be getting my point accross with an opening statement like that … sorry if that was a bad example but it came to mind first …
Well, this is a blog, so I believe posting your opinion and generating dialog is all within the realm of possibility. Not sure why you think you cannot do that. And if you read my initial post, I did not have a bad thing to say about McNabb.
At what point and time did i tell you dont have your opinion and as you said yourself …
I believe posting your opinion and generating dialog is all within the realm of possibility
Why am i not entitled to the same thing ? i gave you my point specifically that criticizing the man the sentence before you give him praise is in my opinion the wrong way of going about it …
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
Can I just go ahead and say that this is one of the stupidest blog arguments I’ve ever heard. Who the fuck cares the Eagles are in the second round playing a NYG team that has been terrible the second half of the season, and arguably without their greatest Eagles killer, Plax. I dunno about everyone else, but I am happy in the now.
JD1, I am trying to decide if you are an Eagles fan or not. If you are, then STFU. If you aren’t, still STFU, but join your teams blog and go chat there.
stupidest
is the stupidest form of stupid because its not a real word :P lol
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
by NorthPhillyKid on Jan 5, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
except that you just used it. I am going to go ahead and chalk this up as one of the fake words that is acceptable to everyone but your english teacher.
by Clyde Simmons on Jan 6, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
lol
i obviously used it in a sarcastic sense lol im just fuggin with you man … theres my new word :D
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
by NorthPhillyKid on Jan 6, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I was never a McNabb hater. Not even close. At the same time, I have openly questioned his leadership and effort earlier this year. .
Honestly, I was trying to make a point to someone who is still consumed by McNabb’s flaws. I was saying “Hey, I agree that the guy has flaws, but you cannot deny what you have seen over the past few weeks.” That was the point of my comment. I disagree that you cannot praise in one breathe but point out a flaw to make a point in another. I stand by both comments. I don’t think McNabb is perfect but I do think I was wrong about some things I said earlier this year and I do think the guy deserves credit. That was my point.
To Clyde Simmons, I am with you completely. I actually thought the Gocong comment would generate some better discussion and had no idea that I would be debating whether I truly intended to compliment or bash McNabb.
squash it
we can both revamp and review what we keep saying and can go on for days or we can just move on … i said mcnabb hater maybe could of been just a poor choice of words , but not to label you as such .. you know what i meant saying you were doubting him earlier on , once again maybe just a poor choice of words… i on the other hand have my opinion and did not doubt mcnabb and never will … i will play the capt and down with the ship till he leaves … i will “if others think so, foolishly support” the best qb the eagles have ever had …
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
fellas, fellas
let’s all calm down. We’re in the divisional round of the playoffs. If we beat the Giants McNabb gets to prove himself all over again. Let’s rally behind the team and forget all this bickering.
I will say however that any other marquee QB in the league, if he were blessed with the likes of Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston and James Thrash (which of those guys are still in the league by the way?) would lament being placed in a position to fail. McNabb, while not perfect, has not exactly been placed in an optimal position to succeed. The lack of a 2 minute offense and stupid use of time outs are not his fault. You may cite the year we had TO, but remember he came back early from that broken ankle and was playing at 70%. He couldn’t get deep in that game
by Eagles need to run on Jan 5, 2009 5:13 PM EST reply actions
True stop the green on green violence.
It’s destroy the Giants week!
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
+1
lol
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
by NorthPhillyKid on Jan 5, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
Done deal North Philly
It is Squashed. I was on another blog stating that the Eagles have the best QB in the playoffs right now. No doubt about it in my mind. I think we are on the same page there.
Ok, so just for the sake of adding to the argument, what other Eagles deserve some props that have been doubted this year. Of course, there is Dawk. He didn’t look the same early in the season and now he is the intimidating force we always knew. But who else? Akers? Dare I say, Considine? (As long as he never plays on defense)
Considine needs to be cut immediately.
It’s been said already but I think Darren Howard deserves some play.
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
Chris Clemons
Jesus Christ has this kid in the past 6 weeks shown a spark … along with howard , showing slight spark in the beginning of the season from both (slightly) but then again that’s just what i see on tv … im sure my buddy andrew will bomb me with some stats lol please dont sir lol but those are my two i believe that need some credit seeing as how we had so much criticism at the defensive end position early this season …
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
by NorthPhillyKid on Jan 5, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Chris Clemons was brought in with high hopes and got injured then got bashed and now that he is healthy he is showing why we paid him his money.
"I need to do a better job of putting players in the right position to perennially come up short of expectations"
McNabb, Hall of Famer
Here’s where McNabb again trumps his competition. Every Hall of Fame quarterback of recent vintage played several years with at least one receiver who was at best a Hall of Famer himself and at worst a consistent 1,000 yard receiver. McNabb has done this twice, in 2004 with Terrell Owens and in 2007 with Kevin Curtis. No other Eagle receiver has gotten over 1,000 yards the entire time McNabb has played there. Marino, Aikman, Moon, Young, Montana, and Elway all had at least on receiver go for 1,000 yards in over half of their seasons as starters. So have Favre and Manning. The only current Hall of Famer with a ratio similar to McNabb’s is Jim Kelly, but he already has one of his receivers in the Hall (James Lofton) and a second who may be there soon. Tom Brady has only had a 1,000 receiver three times in seven years, but he’ll have at least another two years or so with Randy Moss and Wes Welker so that will be changing soon. To be blunt, McNabb has had the worst receiving corp of any big-time quarterback in who knows how long. You can’t find a Hall of Fame quarterback who didn’t have at least one guy who is in the Hall of Fame, got 1,000 yards a bunch of times, or was at least known for making big plays."
-Robert Bonnette, blacksportsonline.com
Give it a few more years ...
Right now, Westbrook is on the sort of trajectory, but we need to see him sustain it a little bit longer. 2004, 2006, and 2007 aren’t enough to make a HOF career.
Also, it looks like he is trailing off as a receiver. Running backs tend to peak as receivers a few years before peaking as runners.
for real
stop hatin on mcnabb…
if he leaves its gonna because of the people who continue to not appriciate it, and if he does leave, i hope he wins a championship where ever he goes just to rub it in their faces
+
1
If football had a church, Brian Dawkins would be my preacher !
by NorthPhillyKid on Jan 5, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Strahan gives props to Mcnabb
“Everybody in Philly – when he’s gone, they’re going to miss him,” Strahan told the Daily News yesterday. “Even if they’d won the Super Bowl, I don’t know if they’d be happy. It’s like he can’t do enough.”
Mcnabb vs. Elway
http://forums.philly.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-eagles&msg=90549.1
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