Can someone make a good argument how this was on the coaches?
by Joe_D on Dec 21, 2008 7:26 PM EST
66 comments
Defense - We dropped 3 INTs. Two were tough, one might've been a pick 6.
LJ - 2 Drops, missed a block that would've gave us 7
McNabb - Wild errant throws to open WRs.
DeSean Jackson - 2 HUGE drops, 4 total drops
OK yea, they could've ran it more, but even if we run it that wouldn't make McNabb throw any better, Jackson catch any better, Asante catch that easy INT or LJ make that block.
The fact is we had opportunities and had they made those throws, catches, and plays we wouldn't be discussing the run/pass ratio. We would be discussing how good our offense has been playing the past 4 games.
McNabb had his one of his inconsistent games and this loss was on the players -- the offense in particular.
Edit: Don't come out and bring the "Andy is responsible for the talent.'' He is, but he tried to get Boldin, Fitz, Chad Johnson, offered Moss a gigantic contract, and we even inquired about Tony Gonzalez. We tried, it didn't work out, we DON'T over pay for players and we never will.
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Players were terrible
But don’t act like there weren’t coaching faults here too. Clock management, use of timeouts, not using Buckhalter at all when Westbrook was obviously injured…
This loss is on everyone.
Coaching could've been better.
No doubt… But even if it was, I don’t see how it would’ve made up for terrible execution by just about all of our key players on offense.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
What is the point ...
Of running for three yards when you can throw for five?
The running game really wasn’t doing anything for us today in the first half. Its absence in the second half wasn’t noticed, and the two second half drives that did any good featured all of one run each.
The Eagles abandoned the run again, which is on the coaching staff
But the rest is on the players. No one stepped up. McNabb struggled, receivers dropped passes (DJ had a bad day) Westbrook didn’t make many people miss when he had his opportunities, key kissed blocks, no picks, ST break downs. The Eagles got out-played in lot of phases.
The monster at the end of this blog.
I agree with both of you
Obviously a few key drops changed the game. Well, more than a few. I also agree that if Westbrook was hurt why not go to Buck? McNabb had one of his really bad games, again. Reid wasted a time out that would have come in very handy at the end. Jackson dropped the tying score on McNabbs best pass of the day. LJ missed blocks and dropped balls. Once again, the only positive I can find is the Defense. We have a championship Defense and a below .500 offense.
Three phases
You are forgetting special teams. Special teams didn’t produce field position, so of course the offense looked like crap. When you spend the whole day in the shadow of your own endzone that tends to happen.
it would also have been nice
for the offense to help out the special teams a bit by at at least getting some first downs before punting. If we didn’t have so many 3 and outs…we would actually have better field position. IT all goes hand in hand.
by Eagles need to run on Dec 22, 2008 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
The play calling didn't help either
the players did have drops but the coaches went back to calling call vertical and stop routes again.
it makes it harder on mcnabb then because the defense just pins its ears back.
they kept trying for the homerun instead of systematically picking the skins apart .
the past 3 weeks they had been systematically picking teams apart and mixing things up
some of it coaches fault
It is true that the players screwed up on a whole load of plays but because of Reid we were not able to establish any rhythem whatsoever. He resorted to the play calling that screwed us over earlier in the year with his unbalanced 60% pass, 40% run offense. REID NEEDS TO GO!
46 passes.....16 runs.
Thanks for playing, Joe D.
BTW you are Captain Flip-Flop. Just a month ago you were calling for Reid’s head and now you’re defending him?
Same thing with Kolb if I recall.
Seattle, the world's worst sports city.
At first
I wanted him fired, but once you see it’s the players not EXECUTING, you know it’s not reid’s fault. Did you see Reid’s approval rating when the player’s execute?
Would we still be saying fire reid if a couple of those key players made some plays?
Ah, you’re a Seahawks fan, what’ the use of debating!?
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Umm....they were balanced in their last 3 wins
In their last 3 non-wins they threw it 1 million times….
If the players can EXECUTE in games where the playcalling is balanced, how come they can’t when it’s one-sided and GD predictable?
Seattle, the world's worst sports city.
I soooo agree
execution is only as effective as the playcalling allows
by northern eagle on Dec 21, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
no it wasn't
Most of our runs came in the 4th quarter WHEN WE HAD A LEAD!!!! it was still only 55-45
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
but joe ...
weve gone over this a million times…if alll you do is pass the defense doesnt even have to work hard they just instantly drop into coverage and THAT makes every drop of offences job exponentially harder( ulike that word i paid 25cents fer it)
by northern eagle on Dec 21, 2008 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
WRs were open
When McNabb wasn’t throwing the ball into the dirt, we were dropping them.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
and when we weren't dropping them,
he was throwing them into the dirt. yet at no point did our genius coaching staff say….“maybe we should try something else”. oh no. how about we just keep doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for different results. oh wait, that’s the definition of INSANITY!
by Eagles need to run on Dec 22, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Running the ball seems to be working pretty well for the Giants in overtime
I want to strap Andy Reid down Clockwork Orange style and make him watch this Giants-Panthers game. It’s the only way he will learn that running the ball can win you a game, even when you aren’t ahead by two touchdowns. Then I want to punch Joe Banner in the balls as hard as I can. Just because.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Dec 21, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually
McNabb was sacked twice, so that’s 48 pass plays. 48 pass plays in a 10-3 game? Delhomme and Manning threw that many times combined this week and they combined for 62 points. Yes, if we had less drops, we could have won against the Redskins. But that’s a cart before the horse argument. There would have been less drops if we didn’t throw the ball as much. The bottom line is this team can be a balanced offensive team, but for some reason, they don’t want to be game in and game out.
Delhomme and Manning?
They just spent the game handing the ball off to guys who actually could run for big plays. Niether team in FedEx field looked particularly competent at running.
That's the point
I recall McNabb in the Meadowlands handing off 33 times to a guy who ran for 131 yards. But I guess Westbrook couldn’t get more than 12 carries because the Redskins scored a whopping total of 10 points on us. We did not have to abandon the run game yesterday, but abandon it we did.
STOP, PLEASE!
The run game did nothing through the first 35+ minutes of the game, where we scored zero points on a 40-60 run-pass offense. We scored 3 points with a chance for 7 more using a run-pass offense of about 10-90 in the final 25 minutes.
We didn’t lose because we “abandoned the run”. The only reason we had a chance to tie at the end of the game was because there was still enough clock left because we had abandoned the run.
I'd agree with you
if the Eagles didn’t have the ball four other times in the 4th quarter before the last drive. There was plenty of time to run the ball more than once in the 4th quarter.
Look, I agree that we could have won if the WRs caught some passes and McNabb threw a little better. But we’ll have to agree to disagree that we had to go to a 10-90 ratio with 25 minutes to go in a 10 point game.
So let me get this straight
I guess no other NFL teams run the ball when they are down by only 7 or 10 points with plenty of time left.
They don't when the run doesn't work
Did you not see the stats? We passed 11 times and ran it 7 times in the first half. ZERO POINTS! ZERO POINTS!
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
7 times is enough to know it doesn't work?
Yes, we had 0 and the Skins had 3. Time to panic!
Fire the fat one
and hire a good college coach like we did in the seventies…vermeil was awesome….neeed to shake things up again…teams(and fanns) are stuck in a rut …im disguted…youre all disgusted…andys digustING….time for a change ( actually a whole lot of em…..nuff said
why dont we get the head coach for the trojans?...hes doin incredible things so ii hear
and i like his attitude
head coack
All we really need is a head coach with atleast a teaspoon of enthusiasm, and he’ll already have twice as much than Reid. It would also help if he hasn’t lost his mind like Reid apparently has.
by jj300daysgrace on Dec 21, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
drugs
its all the drugs his sons left behind…he found their stash and now……WHEW, i want to fly like an eagle
by northern eagle on Dec 21, 2008 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
i think so....
i know he coached somewhere and did horribly but i guess hes doin FANTASTIC out in socal
by northern eagle on Dec 21, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
he came from there before he went to the patriots and went back when he failed
the problem with pulling from the college game is its is a completely diff monster. His schemes work well because you can in college at a big school tecruit players that dominate every other school and are faster than everyone else…the NFL is the best of the best and the fastest of the fast
i wouldn’t want pete carroll even if he would come back to the nfl
The drops are very much a result of a coaching. This is what makes no sense. In a game where WRs aren’t getting open and dropping passes… how do we throw it 50 times and run it 12?
Like I always say… the pass game can look god awful(like today) and Andy will pass more. The run game can not look great in 6 or 7 plays and it will be completely abandoned.
None of this excuses the players by any means. The execution was poor. BUt it works both ways. The execution doesn’t absolve the coaches.
How does Andy's coaching...
Directly effect the two huge drops by Jackson who had Hall burnt like a piece of toast?
Jackson dropped a first down, nearly fumbled it earlier in the 4th quarter.
Listen, I agree, we could’ve ran it more but if the players did their jobs this would be a whole different story. Do you really think if we ran it 10-12 more times the score would be any different? We werent playing well and that’s why we lost.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
yes Joe...if we ran it 10-12 times more,
we would have more time of possession, would have moved the ball more, wouldn’t have had so many 3 and outs, would have had much shorter 3rd down conversions to make….etc…etc!
by Eagles need to run on Dec 21, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
in other words,
we would have increased our chances of success. amazing that’s such a foreign idea to Eagles coaches these days.
by Eagles need to run on Dec 21, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
thank you.....andddddddddd the redskins wouldnt have known what we were doing EVERY FRIGGIN GODDAMN FUCKIN PLAY>>>>>>I FUCKIN HATE ADNY REID!!!!!but ur all cool joe and jason and all me fellow patients here at psycho ward E
by northern eagle on Dec 21, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
If the Redskins "knew what we were doing"
Why couldn’t they stop our two gazillion pass 1 run drives that got us into the redzone in the second half?
I don't think so ...
When we ran on most series in the first half, we ended up in 3rd and longs just the same way much of the time, had even worse time of possession, and didn’t even sniff the redzone. If anything, goofing around with the run in the first half hurt us by wasting time on the clock.
BTW, we ran 10 times and passed 16 times through the first drive of the 3rd quarter (ignoring the two runs to end the first half), and had zero points to show for it.
After that, we ran 2 times and passed 32 times and nearly tied the game up at 10. Are you trying to tell me that continuing the first half philosophy that produced ZERO points, by say, running 14 times and passing 20 times in the remainder of the 2nd half was going to make us win the game?
thank you osirys
id forgotten hiis name..pete carrol that is…but no seriously i DO think andy is the best coach weve had….hes among the top #3 in winning % of active coaches…BUUUUUUTTTT he still needs to go ….just so i can maintain my sanity
2 yards
when your QB is struggling and receivers are allergic to the ball, the thing to do is not “just keep firing”. You take some pressure off and run a little bit so you don’t have 3rd and 10 all the time. I also think that the Eagles have the worst 2 minute offense in the leauge. 2:37 left in the game and they got one play off before the 2 minute warning. That is terrible. Every play took about 4 seconds longer than it should have. Having said all that , imagine if we had gotton 1 more yard against Chicago and 1 today – entirely different season.
I didn’t see the game (stuck seething with rage following the game on my phone while at a Hershey Bears game), so I don’t mean to take any of the blame off the players at all, but it’s a must win game against a team with nothng to play for your team can only manage 3 damn points?
Part of that is on the coach. The Eagles got an absolute gift this weekend from the chargers and ravens, and they squandered it.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
The coaches have to accept their share
Yes, the players were a big part. The drops. Donovan’s throws. Sav’s bad punting. They were BIG parts. But when the pass is not working, you have to go back to the run a bit more. Buck had one carry. ONE CARRY! I truly believe Reid could have utilized Buck in the running game a little bit to get something going on offense.
And why would he call a pass to Westbrook short of the first down in the third quarter on the drive that ended in a field goal. It’s just maddening when Reid makes that call. Why not make the primary receiver run a route into the end zone? It just seems like common sense. How many times have we seen that short pass inside the 10 yard line fail? But Reid keeps going back to it.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Dec 21, 2008 10:27 PM EST reply actions
It was a good call
If LJ makes the block it’s 7. Again, if LJ EXECUTES, it’s seven points, that’s not coaching, it’s players.
I agree, they could’ve ran the ball more, but the bottom line is that the players have to execute, and the offense did a SHIT job of it!
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Hmmmmmm. Giants just ran on short yardage to tie
and because they believe in running the ball, play action worked on the 2 point conversion.
And I disagree with you on that call, Joe_D. I’ve seen that screen call fail too many times inside the 10. You will never convince me that it is a good call on 3rd and goal.
by Baron Dainer Von Tresvant on Dec 21, 2008 11:02 PM EST reply actions
did you not see the missed block?
LJ makes the block no one would’ve touched him re-watch the play
Here’s balance
1st half
11 passes
7 runs
ZERO, thats right ZERO points!
Is that the balance you want? C’mon!! it’s the PLAYERS!
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Joe_D i have to call you out
on making excuses for the coaches. Please try to defend Reid on the following:
1) his appalling time management and ridiculously stupid waste of time outs which continues unabated after all his years of head coaching.
2) his repeated passing calls in a game where the wind played such a factor and receivers were dropping balls. this in light of the fact that Westbrook, hobbled as he was was still averaging 4 yards a carry and Buckhalter had just ONE carry!
3)his inability to properly evaluate WR talent (for a coach that loves to pass so much, that’s a damn shame)
4) his inability to develop an effective two minute offense, especially since that was one of the BIG reasons we lost the SUPERBOWL.
5) his penchant for coming into the season missing reliable players at different key positions on the team. last year it was return man, this year it was FB. In fact, Joe_D, you do realize that he had no intention of starting DeSean Jackson this year right? Our starting WR corps was to have been Hank Baskett, Reggie Brown and Kevin Curtis. Imagine how far that would have taken us. I say props to DJax for all he’s done this year
6)his decision to carry only one healthy RB into a game (Cincy game) but have 6 WR including Greg Lewis
7)Finally, his refusal to delegate duties so he can focus on one thing and do it well. I think the head coach should do just that…oversee the team. He needs to leave the GM duties to guess who…the actual GM. and leave OC duties to…the freaking OC! Maybe that way he’ll actually realize which roster positions we’re missing key players at going into next season.
What a fat dumb fuck!
by Eagles need to run on Dec 22, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
STOP!
Play action passing and running success don’t come from “believing” in the run or “committing” to the run. They come from execution (and health of your running back).
On any given play, a team can run the ball or pass. Its kind of like flipping a coin. If you flip a coin heads 20 times in a row, it doesn’t mean it can’t be tails the 21st time. You can pass 20 times in a row, or run 20 times in a row, but it doesn’t mean you won’t do the opposite the 21st time. The past doesn’t dictate the present of a random event.
Any team that starts thinking like you say is just itching to give up a long play, like the Cowboys vs. Ravens. The first time you get lulled to sleep and start thinking, “well, they’ve passed the last 10 plays, no way they don’t pass again here” is when you slip up and make a mistake.
actually, if I were a D coordinator playing the Eagles
I would drop both safeties 10-15 yards, bump the receivers at the line and tell my D line to pin their ears back, forget about playing the pass and rush McNabb on every snap. I would play to give up underneath stuff all day. We all know playcalling in the NFL is about probability. Well with the above strategy I would be right against the Eagles offense 70 percent of the time. I’ll take those odds any day of the week.
by Eagles need to run on Dec 22, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
dude, at 4 yards a carry, if we ran the ball every down, we would get first downs.
its simple math.
by Eagles need to run on Dec 22, 2008 12:31 AM EST reply actions
Yes it is simple math
Median vs. Mean though. Remember that? I think that was like a 6th grade subject.
4 yards a carry is the Mean. Lets find the Median. We ran for:
-1
-1
2
2
2
3
3
3
4
7
7 (WR End Around)
12
That makes the Median run 3 yards. As I’ve pointed out before, runs of 2, 3, and 4 don’t produce a 1st down. Neither do runs of -1, 3, and 7.
We got one rushing first down on the day – the 12 yard run.
How many drops did we have?
Mcnabb was 26 for 46…. 230 yards. Our receivers dropped the ball I think 9 times. So He could have been 35 for 46 with 300 yards.
Keep in mind
One of the reasons McNabb has generally less INTs than, say, Manning or Favre, is because when he makes a bad throw, its in the dirt. That’s not such a terrible thing, really. Annoying but….
Yeah I kinda disagree with this. When he makes terrible throws in the dirt when the WR is wide open… Yes, yes it is a terrible thing… It’s a shitload more than just annoying…
But T.O. and his sideline histrionics wear on a quarterback. He's like the hot stripper you tried to clean up and convert into a real girlfriend. It's a lot of fun until the moment she has her second drink while out to eat with your parents. You unravel quicker than she does.
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