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Reid's Future

Okay, so let me make one thing clear from the beginning of this post: I am not trying to suggest that Andy Reid should be fired. I'll leave that up to people much smarter than myself to debate. I can't begin to understand the complexities of owner/coach relations so I'll demur. But I do want to ask another question: how LIKELY is it that Andy Reid is fired after this season? I have one major assumption in asking this question: at 2-3 this team probably doesn't win more than 10 games at most and potentially only 6 to 8. I guess if things get turned around and we somehow finish 13-3 then maybe this topic will be dead. But as things stand, what do you think? Here are my thoughts:

1.) If we do have a losing season or an 8-8 season, except for one magical end to the '06 season this team has been mired in mediocrity since the end of the Super Bowl. There's no way to justify keeping Andy around if that's the case.

2.) The mistakes aren't getting fixed: poor playcalling, time management, too many passes, etc. At some point you think Jeffrey Lurie has to say: "Why can't we ever fix any of these mistakes? Why, after 10 years, are these still problems?"

Anyways, I'll leave it at that...how likely do you think it is that Andy is still the coach next season?

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No chance

Lurie and Reid are attached at the hip for some reason

"Watching Big Ben kiss the canvas nine times in Philly was like watching a guy fighting a school of sharks -- with everyone rooting for the sharks."

by 700 Level on Oct 6, 2008 10:39 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I in no way want Andy fired. What drives me crazy is I can always tell when we are going to lose a game. We just never get that spark for the come from behind “W”. McNabb has never been able to complete a 2 minute drill, they always seem to stall. I really put most of the troubles the past 2 weeks squarly on McNabb shoulders. He is just too lackadaisical and I feel like it carries over to the whole team. I think Andy has to seriously question if Donavon is still the Franchise Quarterback he was. I know he looked good early, but he has alway had bad games that he couldn’t turn around, and frankly I have always attributed the Bird’s success to our defense rather than our offense.

I say if someone wants to give us a first rounder for McNabb, take it and try Kolb. 3 first round picks will give us a hell of an opportunity to get some really good O-Lineman and a future running back (I want a Marion Barber). I wouldn’t mind seeing a 3-headed monster again in the backfield.

by Clyde Simmons on Oct 6, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’d like to keep McNabb. I just think we need a new coach.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

3 first round picks...

We’d never do the three first round picks. How would the team ever be able to sign three first round picks….almost impossible. I’m thinking they will use one of the first round picks this season for a trade of some sort.

by slandog on Oct 6, 2008 11:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

can we trade for a new head coach? i’d give up a first round pick for that

by foos05 on Oct 6, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

I thought Tampa Bay traded for Gruden and Kansas City traded for Herm Edwards I believe … correct me if I’m wrong.

by Whodie126 on Oct 6, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hell, i’ll trade a 1st rounder for friggin david beckham if he can make 50 yard field goals

by Remis on Oct 6, 2008 4:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hey this is probably a retarded question...

but why is it that a punter NEVER kicks FGs? I mean never. Even when Akers tore his hammy in 05 we had a LB kicking the extra points.

I know its a totally different thing but i wonder if Sav can kick FGs… cuz he sure is killing it right now on punts.

If he keeps this up, he makes the probowl

"Watching Big Ben kiss the canvas nine times in Philly was like watching a guy fighting a school of sharks -- with everyone rooting for the sharks."

by 700 Level on Oct 6, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

honestly, let him have a wack at this point… can’t be any worse

Kiffin/Linehan '09!
Super Bowl or Bust!

*weaps softly*

by foos05 on Oct 6, 2008 5:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I want Andy Reid fired

But I don’t think it’ll happen, even if the rest the season plays out as it has so far.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 10:53 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But...

And this is in response to 700level’s comment above too…why wouldn’t Lurie fire Reid? Is it really that unlikely? Who else is to blame for the team’s failures? And doesn’t Lurie strike you as the kind of guy that really wants a Super Bowl…more than he wants Andy?

by ajay on Oct 6, 2008 11:26 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok — I admit I’m a reactionary. I wanted Reid midway through 2006 after the terrible ‘05 campaign and the inconsistent 2006 season (you’ll remember such greatest hits as the collapse vs. the Giants and the flat, lifeless performances against the Jags, Titans, and of course the Colts.).

But there’s never been a hint that Reid’s seat has ever even a little bit warm. So I don’t expect that he’ll get fired. But I expect that he’s “on the hot seat” if the Eagles are 8-8 (or worse) again this year.

My problem is that now the Eagles might rack up some wins against San Francisco, Atlanta, and Seattle. But so what? If they win those 3 games but lose to the Giants, they’re toast. Every divisional game is must win from here on out to win the division.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 11:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree...

 You saying that every divisional game is MUST WIN is a bit of a stretch. That assuming that the cowboys, giants, and skins all continue on this pace. I dont see that happening. One of those teams is going to slip and give the Eagles a shot. We’re only two losses behind the Cowboys and Skins, both of whom we play heads up again… don’t forget that!

look i know we’re all pissed off about yesterday, but taking a day to think about it, we’re really only one loss behind Dallas and Washington…. assuming we’d beat them later in the year

The Eagles love to make life difficult, but the season is by no means over!

"Watching Big Ben kiss the canvas nine times in Philly was like watching a guy fighting a school of sharks -- with everyone rooting for the sharks."

by 700 Level on Oct 6, 2008 11:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Assuming we beat them later in the year. It sounds like you agree that the two games remaining against Washington and Dallas ARE must win, but it sounds like you think they can split with the Giants.

There’s really only a 1 game difference in our positions here.

I don’t think every division game in a season is a must win, of course. I just think that given that the Eagles have already lost 2 division games, that they’ve gotten themselves in a position where they have to win the rest of them.

When the Eagles were winning the division, they dominated their division opponents.

2001: Swept NY, Swept Dallas, Split with Washington 5-1 in the NFC East
2002: Split with NY, Swept Dallas, Swept Washington, 5-1
2003: Swept NY, Swept Washington, Split w/Dallas, 5-1
2004: 6-0
2005: 0-6
2006: 5-1 (Lost to Giants)
2007: 2-4 (Split with Washington and Dallas, Swept by Giants)
2008: 0-2

Maybe 3-3 would cut it in the division. 2-4, and one of our opponents would own all the tie-breakers and they’re 2 games (or more) ahead of us.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 12:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Division and Record

Look at the rest of our out of division opponents.

49ers, Falcons, Seahawks, Bengals, Ravens, Cardinals, Browns. Not exactly a list of heavy hitters. The Eagles should be favored to win all those games. Win all 7 of those games and go 3-3 in the division and this is a 12-4 team.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 12:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right now i think the ravens and cards have a good chance to beat us… and the falcons just knocked off GB…

by foos05 on Oct 6, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

the way we are playing none of those games is a gimme the Bengals took the giants to the wire and minus a fumble (very similar to the Eagles Girls game) they could have beaten the Cowboys and we like to play down to teams. The Cards Ravens and Browns are decent teams. The 49ers have a good defense and serviceable offense especially with Gore. The Seahawks are troubled and the only game I see as an “easy” win.

by Whodie126 on Oct 6, 2008 12:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see this team at 10-6/11-5

losing to baltimore coinflip with Cardinal and goin 3-3 in the division

Atleast there's the Phillies

by XxBleedGreen5xX on Oct 6, 2008 7:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Eagles were favored to beat the Bears and Redskins, too.

I think the Redskins are legit, but I don’t think anyone’s shaking in their boots over the Eagles, either.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 12:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right

I’m saying we basically just need to make sure we finish above one other team in our division

I think would be enough to get us in.

I’d be shocked if there arent 3 nfc east teams in the playoffs

"Watching Big Ben kiss the canvas nine times in Philly was like watching a guy fighting a school of sharks -- with everyone rooting for the sharks."

by 700 Level on Oct 6, 2008 12:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s not Andy’s fault the offense can’t execute once they get down. Andy has been a great coach…just think about the times before this, at least now you feel like we have something to lose when we lose.

by Clyde Simmons on Oct 6, 2008 12:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

andy calls the plays

by foos05 on Oct 6, 2008 12:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fire Andy put Jim Johnson as Headman and hire new DCoordinator.

BUT!!!!! keep Jim Johnson in control of Dfense similiar to like Andy is w/ offense

Atleast there's the Phillies

by XxBleedGreen5xX on Oct 6, 2008 7:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We’re better off than we were when Kotite was the coach. Let’s aspire to more than that.

Like I said in another post, Andy Reid was a good hire. He’s done a lot of good things for this team. I just don’t think he’s the guy that’s going to be able to take it to its next step.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reid Gone

So if you want to see him go, who do you bring in? You can’t just fire a guy and not have some ideas of the talent out there to take his place. Right now, the talent waiting for a call is guys like Mariucci, Billick, Schottenheimer, Linehan, Kiffin, Davis, Green, etc.

Is this guy you have a mind actually a step up? I don’t think any of those guys are.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 12:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Steve Spagnoulo ...

oh wait … John Harbaugh … damn um I’m lost …

by Whodie126 on Oct 6, 2008 12:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Andy were fired – the only coach I’d be happy replacing him would be Jim Johnson.
No one else.
Andy’s the best coach the eagles have had since Dick Vermeil.

by cavortingEagle on Oct 6, 2008 1:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

JJ doesn't want the job ...

I’m pretty sure he has been offered numerous HC jobs. I don’t think firing Andy is the way to go I think there are other issues.

by Whodie126 on Oct 6, 2008 1:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reid is the best coach since Greasy Neale, who remains permenantly as standard bearer until Reid or someone else can win more than 2 Super Bowls.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 1:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And yes, I’d be thrilled with JJ as HC, as long as Marty’s not his offensive coordinator.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 4:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And remember...

Andy was a relatively unknown QB Coach when we got him; who’s the say we can’t find another talent like that? There are a lot of talented coordinators around the league.

by ajay on Oct 6, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay, name somebody. And if its a defensive person like Spagnuolo, who becomes the offensive mastermind, or do you keep Mornhinweg?

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 1:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m not the one who has to do that, Andrew.

They found Reid when he was a lesser-known candidate, and as I’ve said in another post I think that was a good hire. I have confidence they can find someone else. Try to find someone new, as they did with Reid.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 4:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like i said before put JJ as Head Coach and hire Billick as DCoordinator, with JJ holding the reigns

Atleast there's the Phillies

by XxBleedGreen5xX on Oct 6, 2008 7:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Billick?

Billick as DCoordinator?

Why?

Billick was OCoordinator under Dennis Green in Minnesota, and got the Baltimore job thanks to the blind luck of Minnesota drafting Randy Moss and signing Randall Cunningham and then proceeding to tear up the league offensively in 1998.

Billick without talent is the Balitmore Offense of 1999 to the present.

by Andrew B on Oct 7, 2008 3:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shove Off, Cap'n Andy

I’d love to see Andy fired, but it won’t happen anytime soon. Lurie’s not the fickle, dynamic owner that Jerry Jones is. He defers to Andy and Joe Banner on everything, and even though he’s hungry for a Super Bowl, he simply doesn’t have the rocks to tell either of them how it is. My plan? Fire fatass and bring in Bill Cowher out of retirement so we can have a Super Bowl-winning coach that’ll bring intensity, charisma, and smashmouth football back to where it belongs.

jaws

by jaws1385 on Oct 6, 2008 11:33 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bill Cowler will retire a Steeler…no Way he comes back to a team other than the steelers.

by Clyde Simmons on Oct 6, 2008 11:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perspective needed

Reid’s teams have frequently started slow and lost early season games in dissapointing ways. Playoff berth’s are won in December, not September.

If we win the next two very winnable games, we are 4-3, which was also our record in 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, and 2006. In fact it looks like all three should be very winnable, which would put us at 5-3.

Reid has taken the team to second half records of:
5-3 (2007)
6-2 (2006)
2-6 (2005)
6-2 (2004)
7-1 (2003)
6-2 (2002)
6-2 (2001)
6-2 (2000)
3-5 (1999)

Another 6-2 finish would make us 11-5, with a playoff berth all but guaranteed.

Haven’t we seen this film before?

Its not time to give up now. To paraphrase Marv Levy, “when its too tough for other teams, its just right for us.”

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he should be fired as the GM

not as the Head Coach. He should be focused on game day all week not personell issues and the like that a GM does.

by Whodie126 on Oct 6, 2008 12:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other way around IMO. I think he’s great at personnel decisions. We are a top 5 draft team. He needs to be fired as a head coach. i agree with u up top that the way we have been playing no game is a gimie at this point.

by Joe_D on Oct 6, 2008 12:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How do we know we’re a top 5 draft team?

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 12:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Could we?

That’d be strange to fire him as a coach but retain him as a GM…I wonder if he’d go for it? Is there a precedent there?

by ajay on Oct 6, 2008 12:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eagles Draft

Because the Eagles are a net supplier of talent to the rest of the league.

When the Eagles cast off a draft pick, they are usually signed by another team. The reverse doesn’t hold – the Eagles pick up talent from other teams at a much lesser pace.

Andy Reid has also sent more of his players to the Pro-Bowl more times on a per year basis than almost any other coach in the league.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The slow starts could be the difference between missing the playoffs and making it, or having home field advantage vs. going on the road.

The games at the beginning of the season count for exactly as much games at the end. Think about 2006, the season we give Andy Reid so much credit for. At one point they lost 5 out of 6 games.

Throwing out losses to the eventual NFL champion Colts and the playoff bound Saints, 1 win vs.Tampa or Jacksonville at home, or Tampa Bay with Bruce Gradkowski at QB would have made the difference between a home field advantage and playing at the Superdome. Not to mention the choke at the Linc against the Giants in week 2. You can’t put all of those losses on coaching, but Reid’s the GM, too.

I’ll grant you that Reid, and/or the Eagles during his tenure, have done a very good job in the 2nd half. But those poor first halves have cost them in 2006 and 2007.

And while your point about the quality of opponents in the NFC East is a good one, I don’t recall the Eagles ever being 0-2 against the division, while everyone else was playing this well, either. These straights are a bit more dire than anything they’ve seen before.

I’ll cool the fire-Reid talk for the rest of the season, and see at the end of the year if my expectations (division championship + 1 playoff win) were met.

Times yours, Andy.

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

0-2

The Eagles are 0-2 thanks to 2 losses by 10 points.

Its not like the Eagles are getting blown out of the water, like we did to everyone in 2004.

Chill out a bit. This is normal divisional competition.

by Andrew B on Oct 7, 2008 3:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

IN my uninformed opinion

The play calling has been terrible, and has played a major part in our losses.

by keithk on Oct 6, 2008 12:27 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Divisional Records

The main problem with these comparisons to the first half of the decade, IMHO, is that the rest of the division is so much better now than it was back in the day. Is there a reason to believe we can go from 0-2 to 3-3 (which would require wins at Washington and NY) or even 4-2? These aren’t the Kerry Collins, Mark Brunell, Quincy Carter days anymore…

by ajay on Oct 6, 2008 12:44 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The rest of the division improved. The Eagles participated in those drafts and free agency periods. Couldn’t they have improved during that time as well?

Fire Andy Reid.

by BrianS on Oct 6, 2008 12:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes...

But they were drafting later in all rounds. It’s just hard to keep the window open I guess. But you’re right, on paper we look like a great unit. Something’s not gelling and that might go back to Reid.

by ajay on Oct 6, 2008 12:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Improving

The Eagles did improve.

How many busts have we had in the draft (rounds 1-5) since 2005? Maybe 5? Matt McCoy, Ryan Moats, Scott Young, Jeremy Bloom, CJ Gaddis? Free Agent busts? William James, Ian Scott, Monte Reagor, Takeo Spikes?

Is that really an inordinate amount?

What team units are worse now than in 2000-2002? I’d say the Kicker, Kick Coverage, Kick Returns are all worse. Linebackers might be marginally worse simply from inexperience. Tight Ends appear to be worse.

OTOH, the Wideouts are better, the Offensive Line is better, the Quarterback is better.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you forgot Javon Kearse…

Kiffin/Linehan '09!
Super Bowl or Bust!

*weaps softly*

by foos05 on Oct 6, 2008 1:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kearse

Kearse wasn’t really a bust. He wasn’t spectacular either, but he was hardly Will James level of ineffectiveness before his injury in 2006.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 4:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

"Watching Big Ben kiss the canvas nine times in Philly was like watching a guy fighting a school of sharks -- with everyone rooting for the sharks."

by 700 Level on Oct 6, 2008 4:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true, but not worth what we paid him

Kiffin/Linehan '09!
Super Bowl or Bust!

*weaps softly*

by foos05 on Oct 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kearse Pay

He got less than you think. Its always that way in football. The funny money contracts never go to the end.

by Andrew B on Oct 7, 2008 3:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Division Better

Has it?

The Giants went to the Super Bowl in 2000 and made the playoffs in 2002 and 2005.
The Redskins were a playoff team in 1999 and 2005. The Cowboys in 1998, 1999, 2003. The Cardinals in 1998.

From 1998 to 2005, the NFC East sent at least two teams to the playoffs every year except 2001 and 2004.

The weak division arguement is mostly memories of 2004, when the Eagles pounded the entire conference into oblivion.

Eli Manning for one, is hardly much of a step up over Kerry Collins, who also took the Giants to the Super Bowl. Jury is out on Jason Campbell and Tony Romo, neither of whom have won a playoff game.

by Andrew B on Oct 6, 2008 1:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

With the way the East is, there is a good chance 10-6 does not get you in. I hate to be pessimistic, but I do not think we can go 9-2 the rest of the season.

Regarding Reid, I am not ready to axe the guy just yet. He did do a great job with this franchise since he came here, there were a lot of memorable seasons. He does need to recognize that he is just not cutting it as a play caller and hand the offensive reigns over to Marty for now. I still like Reid’s overall system, but play calling and adjustments are just not his forte.

by captain nodar on Oct 6, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

question..

i thought reid did hand it over the Marty

"Watching Big Ben kiss the canvas nine times in Philly was like watching a guy fighting a school of sharks -- with everyone rooting for the sharks."

by 700 Level on Oct 6, 2008 5:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yaeh you could see marty calling plays on the sidelines this weekend

by 0sirys on Oct 7, 2008 9:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Andy Reid

I have defended Andy through thick and thin. I still love the guy, but the team has stopped responding, and he has lost his ability to make good adjustments and decisions under pressure. I think there is plenty of blame to go around. Virtually every player on the offense has made a major contribution to the disastrous situation, but Andy chose and developed all these players. He is responsible for their weaknesses. I suppose I would give Andy until the end of the year, and assuming the usual mediocre finish, I would hire Bill Cowher to replace him. But why should we wait that long. Wouldn’t it shake up this lifeless team if Andy was fired now and replaced with say Jim Johnson. I would keep Marty until year end as offensive coordinator. If a dramatic turnaround didn’t occur I would fire everyone from Banner to Spadero at year end. When I compare McNabb’s demeanor on the field with say Jeff Garcia, it really ticks me off. McNabb had quite a few drops yesterday, and the coaches handicap him by putting his best receiver, Jackson on the bench, and failing to call any runs for about a quarter, many of those passes were not thrown where they were supposed to go. McNabb needs someone to tell him to concentrate and stay focused. Someone needs to kick him in the butt. Andy will never do that. I will never forget the laugh exchange with Strahan just prior to the disaster a few years ago.

by TexasEagle on Oct 6, 2008 11:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marty Morninwheg

I propose that the issue is with Marty. with Brad Childress still here you had someone that could get the guys fired up. he had a bit of an edge. a counter balance to reids always cool and emotionless demeanor. Morninwheg is not that guy at all. In fact, he probably has less killer instinct than big red. The issue is on the offensive side of the ball and it is 100% play calling and motivation, andy gets things going well then tries to get fancy, Marty also likes to get fancy so he doesn’t tell Andy “hey no if it aint broke don’t fix it”. Also noone is getting the offense fired up on the side

by 0sirys on Oct 7, 2008 10:23 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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